How much a Les Paul should cost?

antonyiv

Check any of the Gibson’s posts on Facebook or Instagram - most people like the guitars but most of the comments say “overpriced” or “our my reach”.

The new Les Paul standard costs $3399: https://www.gibson.com/Guitar/USATNW898/Les-Paul-Standard-2019

A Les Paul standard in 1959 was priced at $265: http://www.lilypix.com/photos/data/c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f75849b/8_p35309.jpg

That’s $2322 in present value: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=265&year1=195901&year2=201903

By looking in the numbers it seems that the Les Paul became more expensive by more than $1000. And that’s for the standard model, I’m not talking about the RIs and the other Custom shop models.

Lets think about:

1. Cost of components. Let’s check this example: Luthiers Mercantile is used by Tom Anderson for woods so I guess their quality is good. One piece body of mahagony costs $168: https://www.lmii.com/honduran-mahogany-electric-body-blanks/1338-electric-body-blank-honduran-mahogany-1st-grade-1-piece.html. Of course that’s the best case scenario - we have all seen two and there piece bodies with not that good quality. A maple tops is $204 - 
https://www.lmii.com/maple-carved-tops/7583-electric-carved-top-maple.html. Mahagony neck costs $50 - https://www.lmii.com/honduran-mahogany-neck-heel-blanks/1626-honduran-mahogany-neck-blank-1st-grade-30-x-3-x-7-8.html. And ebony neck costs $30: https://www.lmii.com/ebony-west-african-fingerboards/190-west-african-ebony-fingerboard-1st-grade-steel-string-electric-1-4-thick.html. So far we have $488 in wood only. But that premium wood and the most expensive option. 

2. Hardware - here we have a lot of options but I would just place $ 500 for pick ups, bridge, nut and pots. I believe they will be more than enough and again with that amount I will have the most expensive options available.

So far we have $1000 for the most expensive components on the market.

3. Cutting and paint. I believe that in 1959 there was a lot more hand work. Now we have CNC machines so the cutting will be cheaper.

4. Dealer fees - I have no idea how much is that and how dealers charged in 1959.

Other things to consider:

1. In 1959 there were no competitors - no Japanese copies, no cheap alternatives
2. Most of the parts in 1959 were more expensive because the guitar making industry wasn’t that big - there were 4-5 major companies in USA.

So...why the production models are getting more expensive?

Whitecat

Because the price of anything is usually unrelated to how much it actually costs to make?

GoldenEraGuitars

Overhead and running costs are different. It isn’t possible to compare the two eras imo. 

stimpsonslostson

Because it's a business & despite the whining people WILL pay it. 

If you want a Les Paul you have to give Gibson your money. Other brands might make similar guitars, but ONLY a Gibson is the real thing. 

sweepy

Wages and energy costs etc, also a new Gibson Les Paul is a lot cheaper than $3399 in the shops

gordiji

The cases are relatively much cheaper

SlopeSoarer

Whitecat said:

Because the price of anything is usually unrelated to how much it actually costs to make?

Fair point. A mate of mine used (God rest his soul) to make the effect pedals for Rothwell Audio in Bolton. I remember him telling me that when they first started selling them no one bought them. They doubled the price and couldn't sell enough.

Some people think it has to be expensive to be any good: )

antonyiv

sweepy said:

Wages and energy costs etc, also a new Gibson Les Paul is a lot cheaper than $3399 in the shops

Okay, the average wage did for higher: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=3855&year1=195901&year2=201903. In 2018 is around $50 000. But I guess we need less people because of the machines that are used. 

I doubt that the electricity became more expensive.

antonyiv

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Overhead and running costs are different. It isn’t possible to compare the two eras imo. 

I agree. But I try to answer the question “Is Gibson overpriced?”. And I tend to believe that we were able to optimise some processes for 60 years in order to make the production cheaper.

ICBM

Servicing all the debt Henry J loaded onto the company is probably the main cause of it. Prices were substantially lower 10-15 years ago if I remember correctly.

designerseye88

I see the point here but inevitably when you buy a product you are not just paying for the product, you are paying for marketing, logistics, warehousing, insurance, rents, rates, taxes, breakage just to name a few things and I bet these have increased over the years. 

As much as Gibson guitars are expensive I don't necessarily think they are overpriced. 

GoldenEraGuitars

antonyiv said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Overhead and running costs are different. It isn’t possible to compare the two eras imo. 

I agree. But I try to answer the question “Is Gibson overpriced?”. And I tend to believe that we were able to optimise some processes for 60 years in order to make the production cheaper.

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Gibson is not overpriced. People are happy to pay their prices and going by their new line up and direction I don’t think there is much wrong with their prices once they hit the retailers.

prlgmnr

Obviously more than a strat because of the set neck.

sweepy

antonyiv said:

sweepy said:

Wages and energy costs etc, also a new Gibson Les Paul is a lot cheaper than $3399 in the shops

Okay, the average wage did for higher: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=3855&year1=195901&year2=201903. In 2018 is around $50 000. But I guess we need less people because of the machines that are used. 

I doubt that the electricity became more expensive.

Do you or have you paid Gas and Electricity bills for the last 30 years, ? They have risen way above inflation

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/energy-bills-rise-gas-electricity-prices-fuel-poverty-this-winter-a8588901.html

GoldenEraGuitars

prlgmnr said:

Obviously more than a strat because of the set neck.

Not just an Xotic?

JDE

As Gibson are financially in the shit, they have to dig themselves out of it. When a retail business is in this position, there are two obvious routes to doing this:
A - Raise prices and hope you don’t alienate yourself from the marketplace and customers. 
B -  Cut prices and hope you sell more units and don’t devalue your brand. 

Both have their own pros and cons. From a strictly business point of view, they appear to be doing the former, and it is actually the most recommended method, particularly if you are a company like Gibson and have the level of debt they have. If I were the MD it’s what I would have done, but I would drastically (and I mean *drastically*) reduce their product range. 

Freebird

Girls were a lot easier to please back back in 1959, and you could pick up a higher end model for the price of a milk shake. Now the minimum cost is the price of the latest iPhone, so everything is relative.

SlopeSoarer

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

Iamnobody

Your efforts to reconcile costs are admirable but ultimately pointless. 

It’s not 1959 anymore and Gibson don’t owe anything to consumers. 

GoldenEraGuitars

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

BloodEagle

Saying that you think something is overpriced has nothing to do with whether you can afford it or not - it’s pretty subjective anyway, what you might think is a completely ludicrous price for something others may not and vice versa. I do think Gibson’s are overpriced, especially the stupid collectors choice special reserve whatever they’re called ones - but some people will buy them, so it’s all a matter of opinion