How much a Les Paul should cost?

SlopeSoarer

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

I don't think I know anyone on this forum personally (you may know many, so may have more insight) but I think it may be a bit presumptuous to guess peoples financial situations. I'd have thought we might all be entitle to an opinion, unless I'm missing something?

p90fool

While there are four grand Telecasters in the world there's no such thing as an overpriced Les Paul IMO. 

It's a garden spade with some bits bolted to it. 

Blaendulais

How musch more do you think a Porsche costs to make than a VW? Is that reflected in the price of a Porsche? No.  Pricing has very little to do with production costs.  Rolexes cost sweet FA to make but are massively expensive.

In market uncertainty increasing price is often a natural and effective solution to increase sales.

SlopeSoarer

Blaendulais said:

How musch more do you think a Porsche costs to make than a VW? Is that reflected in the price of a Porsche? No.  Pricing has very little to do with production costs.  Rolexes cost sweet FA to make but are massively expensive.

In market uncertainty increasing price is often a natural and effective solution to increase sales.

To quote an earlier comment I made....

SlopeSoarer said:

A mate of mine used (God rest his soul) to make the effect pedals for Rothwell Audio in Bolton. I remember him telling me that when they first started selling them no one bought them. They doubled the price and couldn't sell enough.

Some people think it has to be expensive to be any good: )

Some times overpricing works: )

Gassage

Blaendulais said:

How musch more do you think a Porsche costs to make than a VW? Is that reflected in the price of a Porsche? No.  Pricing has very little to do with production costs.  Rolexes cost sweet FA to make but are massively expensive.

In market uncertainty increasing price is often a natural and effective solution to increase sales.

Actually, a good e.g.-  Boxster costs only 3k less to make than a 911....

Re how much more than a VW- a lot. Everything they use is the best.

thegummy

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

You must be a con man's dream if you think everything in the world is fairly priced and the idea that anything isn't is just a code word for not being able to afford it.

I reckon there's a chance you don't think that in general and are just saying it in this specific case because you disagree that Gibsons are over-priced?

The only time something is objectively over-priced is if the price tag stops them selling as many units as they want to.

Subjectively, though, it's a completely valid opinion that the person thinks it's worth less than the price tag. They've just as much reason and right to comment that online as any other opinion they have about a guitar.

Nothing to do with ability to afford it. For example, I can't afford a PRS McCarty but don't think it's over priced.

antonyiv

A couple of points:

1. Afford is subjective term. I know rich people that buy cheap stuff and poor people who are in huge dept but still buy expensive products.

2. I tried to compare two things - modern va old production price which was impossible and the actual cost of a product VS the real one.

3. Overprice is a subjective term too. I personally believe that a Custom Les Paul is overpriced because of the used materials - Richlite fretboard. Bone nut costs 15, as wee saw an ebony fretboard costs 50. So why cut corners with cheap stuff when you sell premium product?

GoldenEraGuitars

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

I don't think I know anyone on this forum personally (you may know many, so may have more insight) but I think it may be a bit presumptuous to guess peoples financial situations. I'd have thought we might all be entitle to an opinion, unless I'm missing something?

Just as I am entitled to my opinion. And my opinion, after seeing countless people commenting on Gibson posts, is that when they start listing sub £1000 alternatives usually spells out that they couldn’t bring themselves to part with £2500 for a Gibson. I am not taking a dig at these people but this is what I have observed. They would rather buy 3 cheaper alternatives than buy the real thing. I don’t think anything is overpriced, if theyre selling them then the market place has clearly spoken. 

GoldenEraGuitars

p90fool said:

While there are four grand Telecasters in the world there's no such thing as an overpriced Les Paul IMO. 

It's a garden spade with some bits bolted to it. 

Isn’t the jimmy page one £20,000? I wonder how much a les Paul would be worth with a few mirrors glued to it?

chris78

£3,399 is expensive for a guitar you’ll flip in 12 months for the next shiny new thing. 
£3,399 is a good investment for a guitar you’ll use for a lifetime and hand down. Hang onto it for 40 years and use the hell out of it and it becomes a cheap hobby.

Now why can’t I listen to my own advice

Kittyfrisk

p90fool said:

While there are four grand Telecasters in the world there's no such thing as an overpriced Les Paul IMO. 

It's a garden spade with some bits bolted to it. 

Yeah, but I really dig mine 

thegummy

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

I don't think I know anyone on this forum personally (you may know many, so may have more insight) but I think it may be a bit presumptuous to guess peoples financial situations. I'd have thought we might all be entitle to an opinion, unless I'm missing something?

Just as I am entitled to my opinion. And my opinion, after seeing countless people commenting on Gibson posts, is that when they start listing sub £1000 alternatives usually spells out that they couldn’t bring themselves to part with £2500 for a Gibson. I am not taking a dig at these people but this is what I have observed. They would rather buy 3 cheaper alternatives than buy the real thing. I don’t think anything is overpriced, if theyre selling them then the market place has clearly spoken. 

It's not your opinion that everyone who comments that a guitar is over priced just can't afford it - that's just a guess.

Don't get how you can't believe that people would just disagree with you about how much a guitar is worth and have to come up with an alternative reason for them saying it.

What about something like Fortnam & Mason £550 Christmas Crackers; do you think they're reasonably priced and will be picking up a box this year or can you not afford it? Cause it's either one or the other, right?

crunchman

Having just been on a Crimson course, and seen the amount of work that goes into making a guitar, the prices don't seem stupid.  I put 48 hours into a T style guitar and didn't quite finish it.  That's with a flash coat finish.  Add a carved top, set neck, and gloss nitro finish, and you are looking at a lot more work for a LP than for a T type.  It probably would have been 70 hours plus for me.

They will do the job a lot quicker than me, but even so, there is an awful lot of work goes into a guitar.  I suspect it will still be a around 25 man hours of work for something like a glossed nitro finished Les Paul, even in an bulk manufacturing setting.  Even if they only pay $20 per hour, they will still need to add health insurance, annual, leave and sick pay to the cost.  It's probably going to be $700 dollars of labour cost to add to your $1000 of parts.

What other overheads do they have?  If you want to save labour by using CNC machines, they aren't cheap - and you will still need to maintain them and buy new bits for them.  What about HR, finance, marketing etc.  The prices don't seem stupid.

gregm

If you charge very little for something people see it that way, Gibson is a premium brand but I do personally think if you want to decide the perceived market value of a product on materials then quality, support and availability should also be big factors? Gibson are one of the few brands in history that can have so many periods of shoddy workmanship and still be seen in this way!

prlgmnr

p90fool said:

While there are four grand Telecasters in the world there's no such thing as an overpriced Les Paul IMO. 

It's a garden spade with some bits bolted to it. 

You're thinking of the Music Man Majesty

PhilW1

Sometimes it’s not about being able to afford an expensive guitar it’s more a case of justifying spending that much.
I’d love  to spend 3grand on an R8 or whatever but for a lot of us it’s that or a family holiday or house repairs etc,

You can’t win on this forum ,on one hand everybody says a Squier cv is as good as US one ,that you don’t need to spend more than £500 for a decent guitar and on the other being dismissed as cheap because you won’t/ can’t pay a small fortune for a “quality “ guitar.
Now before I start getting labelled cheap skate I have  3 good quality,relatively expensive US guitars, but I wouldn’t dream of belittling someone who for whatever reason chose cheaper guitars,especially as I could be labelled in the “all the gear no idea” bracket.
This thread has wound me up a bit as no one knows others circumstances and some on the Forum can come across as elitist and condescending 

Gerz6558

antonyiv said:

Check any of the Gibson’s posts on Facebook or Instagram - most people like the guitars but most of the comments say “overpriced” or “our my reach”.

The new Les Paul standard costs $3399: https://www.gibson.com/Guitar/USATNW898/Les-Paul-Standard-2019

I believe the new les paul standard officially unveiled tomorrow has a list of $2499. So this might be all redundant.

I think it's been widely acknowledged the old guard at Gibson got it wrong with the 2019 pricing. 

Th4fonz

I havent played a whole lot of les pauls.  I love a lemonburst and i played a 59 customshop recently at £5.2k  It was beautiful and sounded amazing and played great.  A Dream guitar for many to own.  So to fullfill a dream is 5k or under after some haggling alot to spend I dont think it is in the long run.

On the other hand a used traditional for around £1100 is a nice buy instead.

roberty

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

I own three high end Gibsons and I think they are overpriced. But the only way you can get a Gibson is to buy one. There is definitely a premium on the name, and the premium most likely increases demand

Grumpyrocker

I bought my LP Traditional in 2009 for £1699 - I think that was already £100 more than it needed to be .And don't feel that price would be wrong even today.