Gibson's New Murphy Lab

designerseye88

Ok Im going to say it..... IMO if i had 11K to buy a guitar I'd buy a conversion, Gil Yaron or maybe even a replica buy another builder. 

jeztone2

A few years ago I met a bloke who claimed that back in the 1980’s he’d built a load of fake vintage Fenders for a certain infamous Northern Guitar shop. 

Now he said he did his lacquer checking by wrapping the freshly finished guitar body in cling film. Putting it in a chest freezer for two weeks. Then putting it out in the sun with the cling film still on for a day or two. Followed by a tea bath to age any exposed wood.  

Perhaps Gibson labs should employ him. It sounds much less time consuming. 

To me that’s the elephant in the room. Isn’t relicing just the appropriation of the counterfeiters art by big corporations? 

DrJazzTap

dindude said:

May as well cash in on those who care about such historical accuracy before they die. I do wonder about Gibson’s long term strategy - middle-aged men in leather jackets is about as young as their target gets. At least Fender are actively targeting the young, and females, in their strategy.

I was watching a few of those collection videos and they are pretty cringey. In all honesty its something which narks me, old men in leather jackets buying into the "mystique" of a guitar worth hundreds of thousands etc. 
It reminds me of Harley Davidson and how they are struggling with sales. 

danishbacon

Curious as to what kind of methods achieve these textures

GoldenEraGuitars

It was seeing a TM aged les paul that made me realise that i never wanted to take a blade to a guitar. Although I have tested the method and I soon found out that it was something I didn’t want to get involved with. I’m not saying it can’t work for others but it definitely doesn’t work for me. 

I achieved all of the following through temperature fluctuation..

https://i.imgur.com/HQ85xaS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QgtqP2m.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cB9G5Cd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q7UhHZE.jpg

And the best part is none of them are the same!

duotone

The fluctuations in temperature makes sense to me. I’m actually surprised by the razor blade method, it must takes ages doing it that way?

Musicman20

I still don't think a worn Gibson looks as good as a worn Fender. 

Seziertisch

duotone said:

The fluctuations in temperature makes sense to me. I’m actually surprised by the razor blade method, it must takes ages doing it that way?

AFAIK the advantage/appeal of the razor  method is that the checking runs across the body as opposed to parallel or in a more random fashion.

If you want it to run predominantly across the body the temperature change method is no guarantee of this

richardhomer

Seziertisch said:

duotone said:

The fluctuations in temperature makes sense to me. I’m actually surprised by the razor blade method, it must takes ages doing it that way?

AFAIK the advantage/appeal of the razor  method is that the checking runs across the body as opposed to parallel or in a more random fashion.

If you want it to run predominantly across the body the temperature change method is no guarantee of this

This ‘across the body’ stuff has always puzzled me.

I’ve owned two original pre-CBS Strats and a ‘64 335. Most of the checking was in line with the grain on all three guitars. 

GoldenEraGuitars

There are no set rules to checking at all. As seen in my provided examples they are all random. 

The other massive downside to the razor blade method is that you will leave slices, which can be felt if you run your hand over the lines. There is a way to get rid of that but that’ll take.... you guessed it, more time! 

IvisonGuitars

GoldenEraGuitars said:

It was seeing a TM aged les paul that made me realise that i never wanted to take a blade to a guitar. Although I have tested the method and I soon found out that it was something I didn’t want to get involved with. I’m not saying it can’t work for others but it definitely doesn’t work for me. 

I achieved all of the following through temperature fluctuation..

https://i.imgur.com/HQ85xaS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QgtqP2m.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cB9G5Cd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q7UhHZE.jpg

And the best part is none of them are the same!

This is the only way for authentic checking IMO although I have seen a Murphy aged Goldtop that belongs to a forum member and that was very impressive indeed but I agree that razors have no place being used on guitars at all.

I would wager the reason Gibson use a razor method is necessity. They use a plasticised lacquer that is sprayed by machine and this won’t check with temperature fluctuations. For them to use a non plasticised nitro lacquer, spray it, let it gas off for 4 weeks before it can start the checking and ageing process is just not viable for a factory turning out 100’s of guitars a day. It’s fine for us small builders who are doing one or two at a time but in a factory setting it’s just not practical. I’m sure TM and his team could do many in a day with repeatable results and this works for them.

Danielsguitars

I will also never use a razor, I hate it and think it looks unrealistic, I've spent months on most of my aged guitars because it's the only way, especially with a thin finish, it takes longer to show up nicely

I've been doing a couple of bursts now that are into maybe 6 months that's fading and checking etc, they're only just starting to look good, realistic checking is subtle too

Gibson do it for speed plus the wrong finish is used imo

WezV

And I am happy to use a blade to get predictable patterns as a start to a combined ageing process.  


I don't get the "you can feel the ridges" argument as a downside to knifework.   Look at old customs and gold tops and tell me you can't feel those ridges.  I do get that the ridges are not appropriate for a VOS style finish, but they definitely suit a heavily worn example


Checking on laminated guitars like 335s does tend to follow the grain, I assume its due to the way the wood underneath moves... and again its often checking you can feel.

I totally agree that gibsons knife work is often shit. But the elephant in the room is that some of the gibson examples in this thread are clearly forced temperature checking, and they also look shit.  


To me, its less about the method, and more about the attention to detail and following stages of the ageing process .  I will use whatever method gets me there.

Brize

I really like Tom Murphy's razor-blade checking - it's much nicer than this new approach - but it is its own thing and nothing like natural checking.

Danielsguitars

The other thing is most old ones are still shiny and have a textured look to them, you won't get it with razor checking or I've never seen it
This is a jnr refinish I've done that took at least 6 months but the results are worth it, I'm in the process of doing a 65 melody maker, another 6 months probably, I'm still waiting for the checking to start showing up



 

WezV

Danielsguitars said:

The other thing is most old ones are still shiny and have a textured look to them, you won't get it with razor checking or I've never seen it

 

I think often this is down to people's expectation of how an old guitar looks, rather than the reality.   Gibson have relied on dulling down hardware and finishes as a sign if age for a long time.   

Razor blade followed by wire wool and wax gets you right into that fake crazing and dull finish look.


I have started rebuffing after the knife work to get it properly shiny, and so far I think it helps get towards that textured look.

Philly_Q

Brize said:

I really like Tom Murphy's razor-blade checking - it's much nicer than this new approach - but it is its own thing and nothing like natural checking.

I've got a couple of Gibson guitars with Murphy-style razorblade checking (they were actually done by a bloke called Chad Underwood). 

When I bought them I didn't know anything about relicing techniques, I had vague ideas about people putting guitars in freezers but I certainly didn't know about the blade technique - when I examined my guitars I realised that was what must have been done.  They look great on first impression, but on close examination I think they look a bit silly, and I can't get that out of my head now.

Seziertisch

IvisonGuitars said:

I would wager the reason Gibson use a razor method is necessity. They use a plasticised lacquer that is sprayed by machine and this won’t check with temperature fluctuations. For them to use a non plasticised nitro lacquer, spray it, let it gas off for 4 weeks before it can start the checking and ageing process is just not viable for a factory turning out 100’s of guitars a day. It’s fine for us small builders who are doing one or two at a time but in a factory setting it’s just not practical. I’m sure TM and his team could do many in a day with repeatable results and this works for them.

https://youtu.be/YjISNgU1KSU

This would suggest that the temperature method would work okay. Even though it’s a quick/amateur job the end result looks quite alright, I think. I’m sure a more experienced relicer could get it looking a lot more authentic.

GoldenEraGuitars

Seziertisch said:

IvisonGuitars said:

I would wager the reason Gibson use a razor method is necessity. They use a plasticised lacquer that is sprayed by machine and this won’t check with temperature fluctuations. For them to use a non plasticised nitro lacquer, spray it, let it gas off for 4 weeks before it can start the checking and ageing process is just not viable for a factory turning out 100’s of guitars a day. It’s fine for us small builders who are doing one or two at a time but in a factory setting it’s just not practical. I’m sure TM and his team could do many in a day with repeatable results and this works for them.

https://youtu.be/YjISNgU1KSU

This would suggest that the temperature method would work okay. Even though it’s a quick/amateur job the end result looks quite alright, I think. I’m sure a more experienced relicer could get it looking a lot more authentic.

That’s the DIY hobby painter/agers way of doing it usually. The checking, done like this, can come out looking drastically different as opposed to doing it slowly over a period time.

Seziertisch

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Seziertisch said:

IvisonGuitars said:

I would wager the reason Gibson use a razor method is necessity. They use a plasticised lacquer that is sprayed by machine and this won’t check with temperature fluctuations. For them to use a non plasticised nitro lacquer, spray it, let it gas off for 4 weeks before it can start the checking and ageing process is just not viable for a factory turning out 100’s of guitars a day. It’s fine for us small builders who are doing one or two at a time but in a factory setting it’s just not practical. I’m sure TM and his team could do many in a day with repeatable results and this works for them.

https://youtu.be/YjISNgU1KSU

This would suggest that the temperature method would work okay. Even though it’s a quick/amateur job the end result looks quite alright, I think. I’m sure a more experienced relicer could get it looking a lot more authentic.

That’s the DIY hobby painter/agers way of doing it usually. The checking, done like this, can come out looking drastically different as opposed to doing it slowly over a period time.

I do think he lucked out in terms of the end result