School me on Mesa Mark amps.

tekbow

The 2C+ is the obvious candidate, but, speaking hypothetically as I'm not in the market (yet), pain in the arse to locate a fully loaded one and prices high because it happened to have a Metallica and JP association.

I've heard the Mk III's can be more aggressive and open sounding.

Which sounds cool to me. In clips I hear little difference in one vs the other.

Stratavarious

There are various MKIII models.. I have used a Purple stripe version for decades.  Others like the green and red are supposed to be more aggressive but the lead channel on mine is killer hot.

Get an EQ equipped version as it massively adds to the versatility.  Mine has the simulclass option.

There is a simple mod to make it a great three channel amp.

tekbow

Oddly enough the red and green stripes were the ones I was investigating.

Stratavarious

Don’t discount a MK IV

tekbow

Mmm.. Mk III's seem to be a bit more under the radar and thus cheaper?

spirit7

I have a Mark IV and a Mark V:25.  

Don't discount either!  Got the Mark IV long head for c. £800, which is a total bargain given how monstrous its tone is.  The Mark V: 25 is wonderful too - if anything, more aggressive, and doesn't at all sound like a small/EL84 amp.

If it were me though, I'd be on the prowl for a decent second hand Mark III/IV head.

JP2Cs come up occasionally, and not always for that much - there was one on here not long ago for c. £1.5k.

webrthomson

I've got a number of Mark amps - but the basic issue with the Mark II / III is that you only get a single good sound out them at a time in the main. Don't get me wrong that sound is generally amazing, the Mark IIC/IIC+ are smother than the Mark III's I've played, mine is a red stripe, but the basic character is pretty much the same.

There are other issues you have to bear in mind for the older amps – you will need volume to get the sound out of them, either that or use an attenuator, I generally find I need to get a Mark II up to 3-4 on the master to get the sound I’m looking for. My Mark III has more gain earlier on but sounds a bit more brittle. 

Also, certainly in the mark II’s, the loop is not very good!

The Mark IV and V address almost all of those flaws – I find the control layout on the IV utterly baffling, but it does sound good once you dial it in. The mark V by comparison is very easy to use, mainly as Mesa realised that grouping the controls by channel was the obvious way to do it

I actually found the Mesa DC5, revision b, to be the right amp for me from a gigging stand point, loud and very good on the gain front with a cracking clean channel. I gigged mine for a decade with no issues.

ICBM

I actually think the Mark I and Mark III are the best-sounding - I don't get the hype about the Mark IIs at all. You do need the graphic EQ on the III, and the R2 channel is still pretty rubbish, but you can get truly great clean and high-gain sounds on them if you're careful - bearing in mind they're *very* fussy to set up because the controls are all so interactive.

The MkIV fixed some of that interactivity - although combining the bass and mid controls on R1 and R2 is a major problem because the best sounds are with them set very differently - but overall it just doesn't seem to quite have the aggression and clarity of the III.

Give me the choice of any and I'd probably go for either a basic 100W MkI or the all-options MkIII with Simul-Class, GEQ, reverb and a hardwood cabinet - which is actually the very first Mesa/Boogie I ever saw, in Chandler's in 1986...

webrthomson

ICBM said:

bearing in mind they're *very* fussy to set up because the controls are all so interactive.

^ never a truer word spoken

tekbow

Ah now theres a thing, simul class vs 60/100w.

I'm inclined toward the 60/100 because I've no idea of the characteristics of simul class and I fear the unknown.

ICBM

tekbow said:

Ah now theres a thing, simul class vs 60/100w.

I'm inclined toward the 60/100 because I've no idea of the characteristics of simul class and I fear the unknown.

I prefer Simul-Class because there’s a more useful difference. 60/100 is just a volume change really - between really loud and really really loud .

”Class A” - which as usual isn’t, it’s Class AB triode - has quite different overdrive characteristics as well as a much more effective volume reduction.

I also like the 10W single-ended mode - which actually is Class A! - on the amps that have it.

tekbow

Hmm.. I think I'll have to research the simul class vs 60/100 a little more.

I'm assuming that in 100w mode of the 60/100, things would be a little more defined and raw than the simulclass at full power?

tekbow

Oh and @webrthomson, volume not an issue, I'm all loadboxed and IR'd up

ICBM

tekbow said:

I'm assuming that in 100w mode of the 60/100, things would be a little more defined and raw than the simulclass at full power?

Cleaner and clearer. In fact, even the 60W setting is - I'm slightly puzzled that they didn't fit a three-way switch so you can get that on the Simul-Class models. (You can do it, but only by pulling the 'Class A' valves.)

tekbow

ICBM said:

tekbow said:

I'm assuming that in 100w mode of the 60/100, things would be a little more defined and raw than the simulclass at full power?

Cleaner and clearer. In fact, even the 60W setting is - I'm slightly puzzled that they didn't fit a three-way switch so you can get that on the Simul-Class models. (You can do it, but only by pulling the 'Class A' valves.)

Thinking of high gain sounds, so I could construe "articulate" from cleaner and clearer?

The 60/100 might be more my thing

webrthomson

tekbow said:

Oh and @webrthomson, volume not an issue, I'm all loadboxed and IR'd up

^ Nice - you'll need it

Mine are all Simul-class, not from any real design, it more what was available. I like that sound though and tend to run 2 6L6 + 2 EL34 where I can

Toe_Knee

Definitely look into the iii but also keep an eye out for a triaxis. It does mkiic+, iii & iv lead channels with I & ii cleans .

You can get them for around £500 

ICBM

Toe_Knee said:

Definitely look into the iii but also keep an eye out for a triaxis. It does mkiic+, iii & iv lead channels with I & ii cleans .

You can get them for around £500 

Be careful... I recently got a memo from the UK distributor that Mesa have now run out of replacement membrane switch panels for those, so if it fails you’re stuffed. That’s fairly rare, but I would certainly not buy one where there was even the slightest hint that it wasn’t in perfect working order.

tekbow

The Triaxis is a rack pre-amp right?

Not ruling preamps out, but I think I'm more of a Amp Head fella.

That being said, I've got a good Marshall power section on my 800, and a SLO power section, so at some point things like a 3+ or bogner fish (likely a clone thereof) would appeal.

But Mark Amp wise, I think I'd rather have the amp.

Listen though, can you really go wrong with any Mark Amp, be it II, III, IV, V or JP2C?

I've read stuff about transformers on the mark series that gets into Soldano magic transformer territory, like the 2C+ having different and larger transformers than the rest, but then I think I understood that as being the Power Transformer?

I mean, can a PT really make that much difference to an Amps sound?

It has to be said, I cant hear a shit ton of difference when they demo a 2C+ against a JP2C, and for probably the same money as an original 2C+ (these days) you get 3 actually independent channels and 2 graphic EQ's

webrthomson

tekbow said:

I've read stuff about transformers on the mark series that gets into Soldano magic transformer territory, like the 2C+ having different and larger transformers than the rest, but then I think I understood that as being the Power Transformer?

^ yeah thats the infamous Schumacher 105 transformer - it is used in a lot of Mesa's greatest hits - Mark IIC+ / Mark III / Pre-500 dual rectos. 

However it's not in the exports and they sound great so I think as long as a good quality one is used it's not the defining factor in the amp.

If you fancy plunging into the details of it have a look here: 

https://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=37443&start=0

If your thinking about the preamp route - I'd get a Studio and have Dennis Marshall or another reliable tech mod it to the IIC+ specs. He did mine and I've A/B'ed it against my IIC+ and I cannot tell the difference through the same power section.

Personally I'd buy a Mark V or a JP-2C - probably the JP-2C since it's got midi

I worked in the US for a bit so I was lucky enough to have access to a lot of more reasonably priced old Mark amps - in the UK they are silly expensive.

tekbow

@webrthomson are they the OT or PT?

I thought dennis had retired? Tried to get in touch a while back and couldn't