Teach me: Delay pedals

uncledick

I've been playing on and off for over 50 years and have recently sussed that whenever there's a discussion about pedal boards, everyone seems to have a delay of some sort.  Apart from some obvious stuff like Gilmour/May etc. what are the rest of you doing? FWIW, I'm in a covers band doing Beatles/Eagles/Sheryl Crow along with some Indie stuff.  

I have a Boss delay so maybe some one could take a take a pic of their 'standard' setting and post it on here.  I've had 2 Boss pedals die in the last 6 months so would be  good to use it before it goes belly up.  You'd think a company the size of theirs would offer some sort of repair service.  

monquixote

You might find that you will get more replies in the FX section rather than technique. 

You must have been fairly unlucky as Boss is generally known for being a reliable brand.

Which Boss delay is it? (they make quite a few). 

In any case posting knob settings may not be that much use as the controls tend to vary wildly between different delay pedals. 

It may be that you just aren't a delay guy if you haven't found a use for it. 

There are a few ways of using a delay:

You can have the repeats set low, the level fairly high and the delay set very short (under 50ms) for that classic rockabilly slapback which is great for anything rootsy rock and roll and also adds a bit of a thickening effect which is great if you are in a one guitar band. 

You can also set it as a general always on ambience. Lots of higher gain players tend to do this rather than reverb. If you want to do this then have about 2-3 repeats, keep the level fairly low and have the time about 200-300 ms. In this way of doing things you might have the level a bit higher and kick it on just for solos. 

The final common thing is to have the echoes as a integral part of the song, but generally you will need a tap tempo for that and it comes down to if you play stuff like U2 in your band.

EricTheWeary

I think delay can be tricky because you often don’t hear it distinctly, it’s buried in a band mix but creating ambience and liveliness for the guitar part - you’d miss it if it wasn’t there. 

I’d suggest that a single repeat for a rockabilly setting is a bit longer than suggested above, maybe around the100ms mark so that it’s distinct from the original note. Really short (30 to 50ms) is more of a less obvious doubling type effect. Slapback is such a familiar effect from rockabilly and country that your ears will tell you soon enough where you like it. 

The two to three longer repeats for ambience rather than reverb, as said, it can be more distinct/ less muddy than using reverb. 

I was listening to some of The Clash earlier. They have a few things where they use delay for essence of dub reggae. So these are maybe slightly longer delays with quite a bit of feedback getting close to oscillation. On Police and Thieves you can hear it used as an on off effect ( and just once I think) so it adds that tripping off down an Alpine valley effect and on Bankrobber it’s always on so guitar noises as much as the playing gets repeated into an almost ambient wash. 

But loads and loads of ways. I remember seeing Albert Lee and he would set the tap tempo for almost every song so that when he turned the delay on it’s playing note for note what he’s playing, equal in the mix although you need to be an accurate guitarist. Reverse delay gives you that almost instant psychedelia thing. One of my favourite uses of delay is Walking on the Moon, if you play that guitar part there is so much space that it sounds dead without that single delay. 

Digital delay can be hard to use ( although generally fine for slapback or the Albert Lee type stuff) and softer sounding analogue/ tape style delays can work better for more ambient approaches so they sit ‘behind’ your playing more. 

Loads on YouTube about delays. Tim Pierce ( youtuber, session player) is a big advocate of having a modulated delay for ambience ( generally in a classic rock context). Here he is setting up a more ambient rock tone using delay and reverb, it’s very wet but the notes are still very clear: 

https://youtu.be/k1TRZt26qm8

EricTheWeary

https://i.imgur.com/jBwy3N9.jpg

For some reason thinking about this whilst walking the dog. 

Anyhoo that picture is from the Carbon Copy manual which is a simple delay pedal. 

Memphis Slap - single repeat ( Regen), probably 100ms (give or take) delay time and nearly 50:50 on the mix. No modulation but you’d struggle to hear that on a single repeat. Classic rockabilly. 

If you turn this setting to minimum delay time (20ms) that’s so short it’s almost inaudible but find a sweet spot around 30-40ms and that’s good for 80s jangly, clean rhythm ( especially with a chorus pedal as well). 

Golden Age Guitar God - never really used this but sounds kinda Brian Mayish. Demonstrates that with distortion you probably need lower mix.

Skank’n’Dub - for adding character to clean reggae rhythms, good for that post punk reggae influenced stuff - The Police, The Ruts, The Clash,etc.  Early analogue delays had a max time of 350ms so that’s a sound you often hear in mid to late 70s reggae, rock, punk and that setting is around there. 

I’d probably turn up the Mix and Regen a bit so it’s on the edge of oscillation which is a very full sound to fill out a band mix. 

Delay generally disappears in a band mix so you can have Mix levels higher than you might think. 

Some delays don’t sound like they trail off very naturally so a smidge of reverb can help smooth out the trails. 

Anyway, I’ll shut up now. 

JezWynd

Albert Lee and he would set the tap tempo for almost every song so that when he turned the delay on it’s playing note for note what he’s playing

It was a light bulb moment the first time I accidentally landed on that setting. Suddenly I was effortlessly playing at double speed.

stickyfiddle

I tend to separate delay players into 2 camps:

1. the "pad for solos" guys, like Mick from TPS and countless 80s rock stars  Comfortably Numb, 
2. the rhythmic guys, like The Edge or Muse, or  
3. I guess there's also the "slight echo for vibe" guys which arguably covers the 50's slapjack thing as well as the new wave /80's sort of thing that covers The Cars through to The Police (something like the intro for My Favourite Mistake if we're looking at the OP's references)

#1s tend to prefer the analog 3-knob pedals as they don't care much about tempo and complexity as long as that pad thing is there. This is what e.g. the MXR Carbon Copy is best at

#2 generally needs the delay to have a specific sound and tempo to serve the music, so that's where your bigger more complex delays typically come in. Usually with Tap Tempo just because it makes everything *much* easier. 

#3 is more vintage again. Originally would have been done with tape or tube echos, which pedals like the Strymon Deco or Volante are directly trying to emulate. But you can get there with most pedals. 

I'm 2 and a bit of 3, so I like big bright delays with lots of control and can't function without tap tempo, so having gone around the houses a bunch of times I'm currently using an Eventide Timefactor. And for #3 I'd favour a Deco. 

From the influences you've listed I'd be amazed if you didn't enjoy a Deco. It'll do delay, but it does so much more to push you towards classic recorded sounds full of saturation and slight modulation.

EricTheWeary

JezWynd said:

Albert Lee and he would set the tap tempo for almost every song so that when he turned the delay on it’s playing note for note what he’s playing

It was a light bulb moment the first time I accidentally landed on that setting. Suddenly I was effortlessly playing at double speed.

I saw him live maybe twenty years ago and he had a little pedal linked up to a delay in his rack and before most songs he'd do a tempo check with the drummer and tap the pedal and by the end of 90 minutes I'd  worked out what was going on. 
My few attempts at using tap tempo live have always ended in utter arse; certainly nice things to be done with delay without it and I'm happy to stick to those! 

soma1975

stickyfiddle said:

I tend to separate delay players into 2 camps:

1. the "pad for solos" guys, like Mick from TPS and countless 80s rock stars  Comfortably Numb, 
2. the rhythmic guys, like The Edge or Muse, or  
3. I guess there's also the "slight echo for vibe" guys which arguably covers the 50's slapjack thing as well as the new wave /80's sort of thing that covers The Cars through to The Police (something like the intro for My Favourite Mistake if we're looking at the OP's references)

#1s tend to prefer the analog 3-knob pedals as they don't care much about tempo and complexity as long as that pad thing is there. This is what e.g. the MXR Carbon Copy is best at

#2 generally needs the delay to have a specific sound and tempo to serve the music, so that's where your bigger more complex delays typically come in. Usually with Tap Tempo just because it makes everything *much* easier. 

#3 is more vintage again. Originally would have been done with tape or tube echos, which pedals like the Strymon Deco or Volante are directly trying to emulate. But you can get there with most pedals. 

I'm 2 and a bit of 3, so I like big bright delays with lots of control and can't function without tap tempo, so having gone around the houses a bunch of times I'm currently using an Eventide Timefactor. And for #3 I'd favour a Deco. 

From the influences you've listed I'd be amazed if you didn't enjoy a Deco. It'll do delay, but it does so much more to push you towards classic recorded sounds full of saturation and slight modulation.

There's also the very short delay for doubling/thickening the sound a la Matt Schofield and Slash. 

And the Slapback guys.

stickyfiddle

soma1975 said:

stickyfiddle said:

I tend to separate delay players into 2 camps:

1. the "pad for solos" guys, like Mick from TPS and countless 80s rock stars  Comfortably Numb, 
2. the rhythmic guys, like The Edge or Muse, or  
3. I guess there's also the "slight echo for vibe" guys which arguably covers the 50's slapjack thing as well as the new wave /80's sort of thing that covers The Cars through to The Police (something like the intro for My Favourite Mistake if we're looking at the OP's references)

#1s tend to prefer the analog 3-knob pedals as they don't care much about tempo and complexity as long as that pad thing is there. This is what e.g. the MXR Carbon Copy is best at

#2 generally needs the delay to have a specific sound and tempo to serve the music, so that's where your bigger more complex delays typically come in. Usually with Tap Tempo just because it makes everything *much* easier. 

#3 is more vintage again. Originally would have been done with tape or tube echos, which pedals like the Strymon Deco or Volante are directly trying to emulate. But you can get there with most pedals. 

I'm 2 and a bit of 3, so I like big bright delays with lots of control and can't function without tap tempo, so having gone around the houses a bunch of times I'm currently using an Eventide Timefactor. And for #3 I'd favour a Deco. 

From the influences you've listed I'd be amazed if you didn't enjoy a Deco. It'll do delay, but it does so much more to push you towards classic recorded sounds full of saturation and slight modulation.

There's also the very short delay for doubling/thickening the sound a la Matt Schofield and Slash. 

And the Slapback guys.

I'd put thickening and slapback in #3 (see "vibe"), Slash in 1 (except WTTJ which would be 2 as the rhythm is critical). 

soma1975

fair enough

clarkefan

Wow give yourselves a wiz everybody, don't think I've ever seen so much concentrated good advice in one place before

I think I could be happy with a good rock sound and a delay pedal.  In fact for years that's all I had, a good old Boss DD-3, plenty versatile.

roberty

Here's slapback 



For long delay tap tempo is a game changer. The idea (generally) is to have it there without overwhelming what you're actually doing. Having the repeats in time really helps it melt into the sound