Sudden change of action (buzz!)

EndlessDream

Hi all.

If this is the wrong place for technical help please forgive me. 

So my Martins action has randomly gotten much lower, so much so that I'm getting severe fret buzz past the 7th fret. The weather here in the UK has been warmer and drier as you know so I wonder if its contributed.

As no other part of the guitar has ever been adjusted apart from the truss, I assumed it'd just warped a little. However, I cannot literally loosen the truss anymore. I got it the point where you can hardly even feel it moving so I stopped. The guitar neck is very very straight with the slightest of bows.

It seems odd to me that this has happened over a day and I'm at a bit of a loss! Could it has dried out? Should I leave it in the case with a spongebag setup? 

Thanks in advance! 

ICBM

Edit: misread the question!

New suggestion below .

Andy79

What Martin is it? How much saddle height do you have?

ICBM

Sorry - I somehow read that as below the 7th fret, which would be a neck issue. If it's above the 7th it's the top sinking, most likely. They can do this as they dry out - the opposite of bellying, which they tend to if they get too damp - in which case either permanent humidification, or a higher saddle as Andy79 is suggesting, is the solution.

EndlessDream

Andy79 said:

What Martin is it? How much saddle height do you have?

It's at whatever it was out of the factory as I haven't adjusted it. Il try measuring it. It was absolutely fine until now.


Okay yes it's 7 and up its buzzing, as I imagine indicates its too low on that end which did confused me as I didn't think the saddle could be affected by humidity as the neck would 

ICBM said:

Sorry - I somehow read that as below the 7th fret, which would be a neck issue. If it's above the 7th it's the top sinking, most likely. They can do this as they dry out - the opposite of bellying, which they tend to it they get too damp - in which case either permanent humidification, or a higher saddle as Andy79 is suggesting, is the solution

ICBM

EndlessDream said:

Okay yes it's 7 and up its buzzing, as I imagine indicates its too low on that end which did confused me as I didn't think the saddle could be affected by humidity as the neck would

No, but the bracing is. As the humidity increases the braces expand and lengthen slightly which allows the string tension to pull the top up a bit.

EndlessDream

Interesting! I did not know. Thank you for the advice.

And its a Martin Custom X Series. 

I shall try the homemade humidifier trick. Overnight would you think? 

ICBM

EndlessDream said:

I shall try the homemade humidifier trick. Overnight would you think?

It might need to be longer than that - just keep monitoring it and see if it improves.

malcolmkindness

I agree with everyone else, it's the low humidity. The weather has been unseasonably dry for the past couple of weeks. I live in the north west of Ireland and even here the humidity has been 30-40% recently.

stephen.wood125

Agreed with the above. I have my OM-42 on a wall with an RH meter next to it and a 1.8l humidifier available when the RH gets below 40. I came downstairs the other morning and it was 36 % I fired up the humidifier and got it back to 42%. I want the guitar out on a hanger but I don't want issues, and I know it's definitely a risk.

Almost wondered if I think coat or 3 of nitro on the bare wood inside would help.

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted!

prowla

Agreeing with the weather thing - we've had some decent changes in the weather these past couple of weeks and nights are still cold too.

EndlessDream

Thanks for the advice guys. I thought it must be related to the unusual weather.. I'm naughty and generally leave my guitars out all the time as to remove barriers to productivity but I guess I'm paying the price!

Interesting though as my Ozark acoustic that's about 9 years old has never lived in its case and the action is still as perfect as ever. I've never had to adjust it in all the time I've owned it. 

Different treatments, different woods etc I assume! 

Andy79

Something doesn’t feel right here. Very strange to get that much movement. Especially action height lowering. What was the string height before? Feels more like a neck issue than the top moving. Have you put a straight edge along the neck?
can you sight down the neck and see maybe an S curve? Does the neck plane still sight just above the bridge?

EndlessDream

String height before was pretty good. No buzzing anywhere and comfortable enough. I havent put a straight edge.

Its odd because it seems to have a little hump around 14th fret area, where the buzzing is strongest, however the truss rod is loose to the point where lowering it isnt noticeable. 

malcolmkindness

EndlessDream said:

String height before was pretty good. No buzzing anywhere and comfortable enough. I havent put a straight edge.

Its odd because it seems to have a little hump around 14th fret area, where the buzzing is strongest, however the truss rod is loose to the point where lowering it isnt noticeable. 

This little bump where the neck joins the body is a reasonably common problem, it is known in the trade as a "ski jump".  It's worth consulting a professional, it's nothing to do with the truss rod, which should never be completely loose.

GTC

I was just wondering - has the guitar been dropped or knocked recently. Heavy jarring of a guitar can cause the truss rod to work completely loose. I had this happened to me with a Godin Multiac which I bought new. It was set up in the shop in Scarborough but probably got jolted in transit. The result was a very low action with buzzing from the 3rd fret upward. In this case, all it needed was tightening of the truss rod. 

The fact that a standard Martin saddle is usually set pretty high and that it suddenly happened made be wonder if this might be the cause.

EndlessDream

GTC said:

I was just wondering - has the guitar been dropped or knocked recently. Heavy jarring of a guitar can cause the truss rod to work completely loose. I had this happened to me with a Godin Multiac which I bought new. It was set up in the shop in Scarborough but probably got jolted in transit. The result was a very low action with buzzing from the 3rd fret upward. In this case, all it needed was tightening of the truss rod. 

The fact that a standard Martin saddle is usually set pretty high and that it suddenly happened made be wonder if this might be the cause.

Not a bad idea. I had considered this. As said the truss rod is actually about as loose as possible without flying around without noticing any movement. I've kept it in its case for 3 days with a homemade humidifier and it has improved. Buzzing only really noticeable at the 12th and up, which is better than from the 7th! Il leave it going for a few more days and then maybe try tightening it some. 

As far as I know it didn't take any knocks, it did however get a little 'baked' in the sun I think by accident.. 

Andy79

Just some quick Bob Dylan stuff ref your cover photo

1974-76 were his best years for me. 

Desire is a good album, until you listen to the Rolling Thunder tour and realise how good the songs could have been, given a bit more practice 
And the Rolling Thunder tour was a showcase of his guitars. Watch some footage and you get to see some very cool Martins. One of which, around ‘77 was traded for some Gibsons in a shop in LA. Larry Cragg who would later be Neil Young’s amp guy, bought the D28 not knowing it was Dylan’s and was sold by him in recent years for around $400,000

I digress. Good news on your Martin.

EndlessDream

Andy79 said:

Just some quick Bob Dylan stuff ref your cover photo

1974-76 were his best years for me. 

Desire is a good album, until you listen to the Rolling Thunder tour and realise how good the songs could have been, given a bit more practice 
And the Rolling Thunder tour was a showcase of his guitars. Watch some footage and you get to see some very cool Martins. One of which, around ‘77 was traded for some Gibsons in a shop in LA. Larry Cragg who would later be Neil Young’s amp guy, bought the D28 not knowing it was Dylan’s and was sold by him in recent years for around $400,000

I digress. Good news on your Martin.

I agree. I think overall, those years were his best, while lyrically I'd say his 60s stuff is better (only slightly). 

I watched the Rolling Thunder tour doc recently and it was incredible. Some of the stuff on there is so tight and groovy! Very impressive. The album has grown on me, I preferred the studio stuff at first but the Rolling Thunder stuff, as said, is incredible!

Love the story about his guitars there. Il take note of his guitars next time I'm watching! 

My Martin isn't by any means a high end one. Only cost me about £700 or so, but its got a beautiful full sound.