Playing faster (or not)

simonhpieman

So I've always relied on a kind of strummy technique for quick stuff, loosely accurate and controlled by muting of the left hand. Kind of Mayer-y (not as fast) or Nile Rodgers-y (better at solos than him after what I saw online the other day!). Can play all the standard classic rock stuff no problem.

Then I tried Frank Gambale's Chopbuiler.

It's absolutely kicking my ass. And that's just the warmups!

I got into the mindset a long long time ago that fast playing usually ends up being tasteless (look at the horrible clothes and pointy guitars those kind of guys wear!!) and I totally wrote it off. I'd never tried to play quickly and assumed that despite years more playing, I hadn't got much faster and probably had a physical limitation.

But now I'd like to try. I've been practicing a single exercise slowly and trying to build up the speed but I'm still 10-15bpm short.

If I just keep at it will the muscle and accuracy build up or is it possible I lack the natural phalange physique and just won't ever be able to do it?

I've been playing for nearly 25 years but I'm back to feeling like Father Ted and Dougall trying to play My Lovely Horse again!

Roland

Have you tried adding hammer ons and pull offs so that you don’t have to pick every note?

simonhpieman

That's kind of the problem - I can do that, I know all those tricks! The point is now making the concious effort to not do any of that stuff

Purely picked 16ths. Hardcore alternate picking. It makes for cleaner, more technical playing. It's fun but it's absolutely destroying me!

simonhpieman

  

stratman3142

I've got that video but haven't watched in a in long while. I decided to have another go. I'm OK up to Round 2 Ex. 2 then things start to fall apart at Ex. 3. I think I need to start working on it again.

That video made me realise how good FG is a alternative picking, even though he's noted for sweep picking.

It's worth experimenting with different motions. I need to bring in some sort of arm motion to ease fatigue, a bit like the guy on the left as you look at the video.

digitalkettle

Guitar practice as an aerobics session...only with more spandex...yuk!

I think that just going at it without thinking about exactly what you’re doing may limit your progress and, at worst, ingrain bad technique.

This free series of Troy Grady / Frank Gambale vids popped up last week...worth a look:

digitalkettle

What's the passage that you're struggling with?

simonhpieman

digitalkettle said:

What's the passage that you're struggling with?

I start struggling at 6. Oddly, I can do 7 pretty well but 6... And 8 and 9!

I'll take a look at the video you posted, you make a very good point about not doing it even more badly by doing it wrong!

stratman3142

simonhpieman said:

digitalkettle said:

What's the passage that you're struggling with?

I start struggling at 6. Oddly, I can do 7 pretty well but 6...

I find 6 easier than 3. Is it possibly a left hand issue more than a right hand issue?

I'm left handed but play right handed so it's usually the right hand that I struggle with.

digitalkettle

I know exactly why you’re struggling with it...

...it’s fkn hard!

simonhpieman

digitalkettle said:

I know exactly why you’re struggling with it...

...it’s fkn hard!

That's good at least. But section 3 makes this look like child's play!

Going to be a LONG Summer, I think 

digitalkettle

It's good as a challenge but it ain't music, per se...so it wouldn't be the only thing I do...and I wouldn't want to get RSI pursuing it

I will try this but, in the real world, nobody listenable plays solid 16ths for minutes on end.

You'd be better off transcribing some solos that you love. I recently did 'A Million Days' by Big Wreck after I saw @Bucket post a video. It's 16 bars, really melodic, full of nifty runs...Google it up...if you like it, PM me and I'll send you the PDF I made in GP7.

simonhpieman

That video on alternate picking was really useful @digitalkettle , thanks! DSX picking, who knew?!

Although I'm not sure he uses this exclusively in Chopbuilder it's definitely worth being aware of.

stratman3142

digitalkettle said:

It's good as a challenge but it ain't music, per se...so it wouldn't be the only thing I do...and I wouldn't want to get RSI pursuing it

I will try this but, in the real world, nobody listenable plays solid 16ths for minutes on end.

You'd be better off transcribing some solos that you love...

I completely agree with this. I struggle with some of these exercises which are only at 120bpm in the video, but there are other 'real world' lines from guitar solos that I can pick/play massively faster.

digitalkettle

simonhpieman said:

That video on alternate picking was really useful @digitalkettle , thanks! DSX picking, who knew?!

Although I'm not sure he uses this exclusively in Chopbuilder it's definitely worth being aware of.

The Troy Grady stuff is really interesting: if someone is playing fast and clean, their technique is worth analysing and Troy has probably covered it

You might not be noticing Frank using it because the movements can be very subtle and he's not near the limits of his skill. Frank's an odd example as he's obviously more known for his sweeping/economy style. I've been aware of him since the 80s and never had him down as an alternate picker (that seems a bit daft...why wouldn't he do a bit of everything?!!).

The irony with Troy's Cracking the Code (CtC) is that the subjects he chooses have often felt their way through to an optimal technique without sweating all the angles and stuff...maybe they're called 'naturals'.
When I became aware of the CtC material, I felt I was undoing some progress...some things became easier whilst others seemed to get harder...I think there has been a net gain though...still working on it. Then there's the leap of faith where 'to get faster, you have to play fast' where your playing seems to streamline at higher speeds. This seems contrary to the common advice of 'play slow & precise and you'll get faster' because the mechanics alter at high speeds.

Disclaimer: I'm not a fast/shreddy player by any measure

Matt_McG

Working on the CtC stuff, and working on gypsy picking technique earlier, all led me to make huge progress. I think largely just through attending to the specific mechanics of picking, rather than just trying to fumble through and "increase the metronome" gradually until I got fast.

These days, I can play pretty fast, my issue is largely just stamina (left hand issues).

One thing to be aware of is the thing that @digitalkettle mentions at the end of the previous comment. The technique players use when playing really fast is usually not the same as the one they use when playing slower, so there is a point where you just have to sort of "go for it", because gradually clicking the metronome up a bit at a time is not going to work.

clarkefan

We had a thread about this recently, the going too fast thing (which is the way forward for me; get the notes down first then go too fast), somebody posted a great line, you don't run the way you walk, even a fast walk, they're different.

musteatbrain

I’ve been following cracking the code since it initially started on his website before YouTube was prominent.
today was the first time I managed to film my picking in slow mo up close.

I thought my picking had got better over the last year or so. I can now play a lot of the 80s shred that I grew up with, well I thought I could. I looked at the video in slow mo. I’m so sloppy, the pick is all over the place. I’ve got so much work to do.

I feel like I’ve opened new possibilities with the slow motion video as it’s really close to the pick and you can see everything that is going wrong.

all I have is a newish iPhone with a magnetic mous case and one of their suction camera mounts, but it fits on the horn of the cutaway of a stray perfectly.

I’ll see if it helps me progress quickly.
I think seeing the problem up close in slow motion is a very useful step to fixing it

TheOtherDennis

Years ago, I got this - 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Minute-Guitar-Workout-David-Mead/dp/1860742394

It has exercises that you repeat for just ten minutes a day, where you do something simple multiple times over, with targets for how many times you can do it in two minutes, gradually building up your speed as you go.

But I found that I simply couldn't get beyond a certain point, no matter how much I practised. Either my technique went to hell in a handcart, or I lost count, frequently both.

I tried to work my way through it maybe five or six times and I always fell at roughly the same place. It wasn't due to a mental block or anything, I found there's a point where I just can't get any faster, regardless, and I was happy to accept that. I could probably do with having another pop to get my fingers and hands loosened up again, cos they've been getting a bit stiff lately.

viz

He had a lovely little 32 bar musical exercise - can’t for the life of me remember what it was - something like sweep for manhatten or something - anyway it was really hard at forst but then something suddenly clicked and it was easy. I’d love to find it again.