12 Strings

Schnozz

Would you avoid them as too specialist and a pain in the arse to tune, or are they fine?

I was thinking about buying one, or a double neck. My guitar tutor had a double neck John Birch SG and he would just put 6 strings on the 12 - Are they easy to switch between with a setup each time etc?

chris45

I love the 12 string sound (electric and acoustic) and I haven't found a pedal yet that IMHO does a decent job of morphing a 6 string source into a credible 12 string sound.  Tuning can take some time but as they aren't really suited for string bends, a decent instrument will hold its tuning.v  Your fingering needs to be more precise than a 6 string and electrics benefit hugely from pre amp compression and very light picks.
Having said that it's hard to play a set where most of the songs are 6 string on a 12 string - well maybe not hard but they sound odd.  If I had the money I would get a Fender XII alternate reality or a Harley Benton.

Dodge

Schnozz said:

Would you avoid them as too specialist and a pain in the arse to tune, or are they fine?

I have one (Yamaha Pacifica 303/12). They are specialist and I always gravitate to Byrds / Beatles type clichés when I play it, despite not sounding anything like a Rick. Mine has lipstick pickups in, so not really that Stratty either. The stock pickups were a bit naff.

It's a pig to tune, but not impossible. Mainly due to the time it takes and the closeness of the tuners. Oh yes, and my lack of patience!

It's a decent guitar though, cheap as chips although they've been creeping up in value a bit, but being a Yamaha they're well built and thought out. Universal route so you could drop humbuckers in with a new pickguard. I'd love a Ricky 12 but having that value hung on the wall for the rare outing would bother me.

I'd probably replace it with a Dano 12 if one came up, but they're in a different price bracket.

Schnozz said:

Are they easy to switch between with a setup each time etc?

With the massive difference in string tension between 6 and 12 strings, I'd be amazed if it doesn't bugger your action warranting a truss rod tweak.

dogload

I've got a Rickenbacker 360-12 and a '66 Fender Electric XII.

Of the two, although the Ric is the more 'iconic', the Fender is a better guitar to play, much more akin to a six-string (albeit one with a wide neck). The Rickenbacker of course has the RIckenbacker sound.
Contrary to what @chris45 says, string bends are very do-able on the Fender (takes a bit more effort than on a six, admittedly).
At the end of the day, it all comes down to what you want it to do... light picks and compression give you a particular type of sound, but I always use my usual Dunlop nylon 75s. Careful fingering is important on the Ric with it's narrower string spacing, but the Fender is much more forgiving and would even suit those of the 'sausage-fingered' persuasion. I've used mine for all sorts of things from the archetypal jangly Byrds/ Church/ REM Rickenbacker stuff to indie and heavy rock, so they shouldn't be pigeonholed as 'specialist' particularly, although they aren't all-rounders either.
Apart from the two I own, in the past I've had a Burns Double-Six re-issue, which was disappointing both tonally and as a player, a Hondo Fame which was awful and a DeArmond S73-12, which I have regretted letting go ever since I sold it - if you can find one I'd thoroughly recommend getting it!
Otherwise the Danelectros are the best, and probably most easily obtainable electric 12s - great sound and nice players. 

Winny_Pooh

Best value IMO would be a Dano or Revelation, the Burns can be good too. They made really fun 3rd/4th guitars, I often use mine for afro or funky licks and its great for atmospheric stuff too.

victorludorum

I made one, which is a stripped down XII/Jazzmaster thingy. Mine stays in tune really well; it was a great project to put together and I love playing it. It inspires different chord structures and riffs, as it quite often sound very different from a 6 string, even when playing the same shape. It's the G octave that really stands out for me. I always thought that the Roger McGuinn 7 string acoustic was a great idea, but I guess it was too expensive to really catch on.

stimpsonslostson

I've got an acoustic 12 string. 
https://i.imgur.com/LGkaYBI.jpg
I really enjoy it, I do less bending on an acoustic so that's not really an issue & it just sounds great. 

It takes a while to get used to, but it's not difficult. 
Tuning is fine, but I also play mandolin so perhaps in used to more strings! I tune to D standard to take some pressure off the bridge. 

I don't know if it'll ever be my only/main instrument but it does something unique & I love how songs sound on it. 

dogload

stimpsonslostson said:

I've got an acoustic 12 string. 
https://i.imgur.com/LGkaYBI.jpg
I really enjoy it, I do less bending on an acoustic so that's not really an issue & it just sounds great. 

It takes a while to get used to, but it's not difficult. 
Tuning is fine, but I also play mandolin so perhaps in used to more strings! I tune to D standard to take some pressure off the bridge. 

I don't know if it'll ever be my only/main instrument but it does something unique & I love how songs sound on it. 

Those Vintage GG's are really nice - I used to have one. The necks are lovely, almost like an electric, very playable. I sold it though as I also have a Washburn Cumberland 12-string which although much more of a beast to play had a nicer acoustic sound. I do sort of miss the Vintage though - it recorded very nicely and more straightforwardly (!) than the Washburn. Hey ho!

idiotwind

victorludorum said:
I always thought that the Roger McGuinn 7 string acoustic was a great idea, but I guess it was too expensive to really catch on.

Sigma have actually just brought out a budget version of that - https://www.andertons.co.uk/acoustic-dept/acoustic-guitars/dreadnought-acoustic-guitars/sigma-dm7e-7-string-electro-acoustic-guitar-natural

victorludorum

idiotwind said:

victorludorum said:
I always thought that the Roger McGuinn 7 string acoustic was a great idea, but I guess it was too expensive to really catch on.

Sigma have actually just brought out a budget version of that - https://www.andertons.co.uk/acoustic-dept/acoustic-guitars/dreadnought-acoustic-guitars/sigma-dm7e-7-string-electro-acoustic-guitar-natural

Oh, wow, that's great! My first guitar is a Sigma, and it's still my most treasured guitar. One of the reasons I made a 12 string electric was because it takes up less space than an acoustic, so I can't see me buying one of these, even though I'd really love one.

impmann

I’m a big 12 string fan - acoustic and electric. My Shergold is genuinely the nicest playing 12 string electric I’ve played - I love the look of Rics but they are hard work to play.

Nothing sounds like a 12 string!

Nitefly

I have a (borrowed) Simon & Patrick 12-string acoustic, which gets an occasional damn good thrashing. 

A thing I always used to do with 12-strings was to tune them to D and then stick a capo on the second fret.   However, with this one, I tried the same and it sounded horrible - really thin and crashy, no body at all.

i ended up tuning it to E standard, and it sounds loads better, at the cost of a slightly stiffer playing feel.

RonnieHotdogs

Magical Instruments, I adore them, 
Currently armed with 1989 Sigma DM12 and Gretsch G6122/12 which is ,I think, the best 12 string money can buy. 

If you want to dip your toe get a used Danelectro DC59/12 , fabulous instruments, great fun to play 

EricTheWeary

Nitefly said:

I have a (borrowed) Simon & Patrick 12-string acoustic, which gets an occasional damn good thrashing. 

A thing I always used to do with 12-strings was to tune them to D and then stick a capo on the second fret.   However, with this one, I tried the same and it sounded horrible - really thin and crashy, no body at all.

i ended up tuning it to E standard, and it sounds loads better, at the cost of a slightly stiffer playing feel.

I think Leadbelly tuned down as far as B in order to make a 12 string workable. Rarely credited for inventing djent...

TTony

Schnozz said:

a pain in the arse to tune

Got a decent tuner?

boz_h

I have a Gordon Smith GS2 12 sting, absolutely love the sound of an electric12 string.  There is a slight learning curve to playing them as they are different to play.  You get used to the faf of tuning but, you never get used to the utter pain in the arse of changing strings.

Schnozz

boz_h said:

I have a Gordon Smith GS2 12 sting, absolutely love the sound of an electric12 string.  There is a slight learning curve to playing them as they are different to play.  You get used to the faf of tuning but, you never get used to the utter pain in the arse of changing strings.

Does it not just take twice as long to tune? I don't understand why they go out of tune more than a six string - Does the tension make it bind at the nut or something?

Why is changing the strings a ballache? Is it because the thinner strings are super thin and slide out of the slots etc?

boogieman

Schnozz said:

boz_h said:

I have a Gordon Smith GS2 12 sting, absolutely love the sound of an electric12 string.  There is a slight learning curve to playing them as they are different to play.  You get used to the faf of tuning but, you never get used to the utter pain in the arse of changing strings.

Does it not just take twice as long to tune? I don't understand why they go out of tune more than a six string - Does the tension make it bind at the nut or something?

Why is changing the strings a ballache? Is it because the thinner strings are super thin and slide out of the slots etc?

For me it’s because the tuning pegs are much closer together, plus you have to keep looking at them to remind yourself which string you’re adjusting. I love the sound of 12 string guitars but they are definitely a faff come  string change time. To be fair once the strings are settled in, it’s only the high G and the top E’s that normally need any retuning. 

dogload

Schnozz said:

boz_h said:

I have a Gordon Smith GS2 12 sting, absolutely love the sound of an electric12 string.  There is a slight learning curve to playing them as they are different to play.  You get used to the faf of tuning but, you never get used to the utter pain in the arse of changing strings.

Does it not just take twice as long to tune? I don't understand why they go out of tune more than a six string - Does the tension make it bind at the nut or something?

Why is changing the strings a ballache? Is it because the thinner strings are super thin and slide out of the slots etc?

Tuning stability is more effected by changes in temperature and humidity than a 6-string - the thinner octave strings are more susceptible to drifting. Also if the tuners are a little on the dodgy side there's that to contend with.

String changing is not that much more of a hassle than a six really, just takes longer. Although a Rickenbacker with an 'R' tailpiece is akin to doing a string change on a Bigsby'd six-string, i.e. a bit of a faff, but necessary.

Having said that, restringing a 12-string is much more fun than re-stringing a sitar!

boz_h

I am not a great fan of changing strings at the best of times, love the sound of new strings just have to suffer to get them.  As boogieman says the pegs are closer together, adjusting the right tuner, generally the entire faf of changing strings x2.5.  Add a cat whose favourite game is running off with various strings, generally the one you want next = shouty and angry me.  I think dogload may have introduced me have to my damnation in hell, changing strings on a Sitar for all eternity. 

chrisj1602

I love a 12 string. I’ve had an acoustic, an Italia Rimini and a Ric 620. They stay in tune pretty well in my experience, because you’re not bending etc. In future: I’d like another acoustic, or the Danelectro electric. I felt I had too much money in the Ric for my amateur usage.