Info on 'red specials'.....are they a kind of magic?

Cols

darcym said:

Cols said:

.  An official BMG Super replica was available, but the waiting list is closed (and those on it have been waiting years). 

did anyone ever get one of these ? I've not actually heard of one being delivered in any of the queen groups I follow, and a few of the tribute acts have expressed frustration at no instrument.

I’ve never actually seen one in the flesh, but I have seen pictures of happy owners with their Supers.  The waiting time for those lucky enough to be on the list is apparently 2-3 years.

Cols

phil_b said:

DrBob said:

The neck on the actual Red Special felt more like a Spanish guitar neck to me. I actually found it really comfortable for my “sausage fingers” (I really hope that and snorkledick are now forever lodged in our forum language)but it’s completely unlike any other electric guitar I’ve ever played

apparently the original plan was to carve the neck down to something similar to other electric guitars but the wood was so hard to work (only using hand tools) Brian stopped when he got to something he thought was playable even though it was bigger than most necks

The rumour I heard is that they used a classical guitar as a guide when shaping the neck... but forgot to allow for the thickness of the fretboard on top of the neck.

phil_b

Cols said:

I’ve never actually seen one in the flesh, but I have seen pictures of happy owners with their Supers.  The waiting time for those lucky enough to be on the list is apparently 2-3 years.

There is one other option for owning a red special and that is to do what Brian and his dad did and build your own.

I not sure how viable this is but there are plans available and plenty of info on how to build one. Brian had his done in two years so if you are waiting 3 years for someone else to build one it is not an outrageous concept and would cost a fraction of the price.

there are a few examples on youtube with one guy even ordering his neck from Warmath as he was not confident he could get it right himself

WezV

phil_b said:

Cols said:

I’ve never actually seen one in the flesh, but I have seen pictures of happy owners with their Supers.  The waiting time for those lucky enough to be on the list is apparently 2-3 years.

There is one other option for owning a red special and that is to do what Brian and his dad did and build your own.

I not sure how viable this is but there are plans available and plenty of info on how to build one. Brian had his done in two years so if you are waiting 3 years for someone else to build one it is not an outrageous concept and would cost a fraction of the price.

there are a few examples on youtube with one guy even ordering his neck from Warmath as he was not confident he could get it right himself

Guitars and woods sell a lot of parts for a RS project

https://guitarsandwoods.com/red-special-body-cnc-kit-272865209.html

That's a proper body kit, but they also have trems, bridges, plates etc.... Just search red special on the site 

impmann

ICBM said:

phil_b said:

Harley Benton have a version also

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_bm_75_trans_red.htm

Funkfingers said:

Aye but the five-way lever selector switch kinda misses a fundamental point of the BHM circuitry.

Totally - his most distinctive sound is the series-out-of-phase, which it doesn’t allow - but it should be fairly easy to have a replacement pickguard made with the correct switching. Probably the most cost-effective solution that’s in the right ballpark.

Cols said:

I suppose the single John Birch replica made for Brian in the 70s deserves a mention as well.  Didn’t sound right, wouldn’t hold its tuning, and was eventually destroyed by Brian throwing it off the stage in a fit of rage and frustration.

Even though I know it was a poor copy, and I can’t stand John Birch’s work either, if I ever wanted a BM guitar it would be that yellow colour - I’ve always thought it was the best-looking version. My first visual memory of Queen is seeing it in the We Will Rock You video... it was below freezing outside when it was filmed and Brian didn’t want to risk damaging the red one.

Brian has had it restored to playing condition - but apparently it’s still got tuning issues:

http://www.guytonguitars.com/brian-mays-john-birch-guitar.html

phil_b

phil_b

https://rezapratama8.wixsite.com/rzguitarworks

I found via youtube another builder in Indonesia https://www.youtube.com/user/azisgagap1/search?query=red

at $2000 plus shipping looks a bit of s bargain possibly 

MelodicLydian

It was Brian May & Queen that sparked my interest in guitar and it was years until I widened my interest to include that of many other great players too.

These days there is so much more detailed information on the original guitar - the official book is well worth a read. 
  
My first quality guitar was a 93 Guild which I still very much enjoy playing - I've done a few reversible cosmetic mods so it looks closer than stock. it has a thinner neck with a flatter radius making it very easy to play.

When they launched the Burns in 2001 (effectively the pre-cursor to the BHM standard models) I pre-ordered one. There is no doubt the value for money compared to other "replicas" (I think back then it was less than a quarter of the price of the Guild) and you can certainly get some very close sounds - listen to the man himself demo it.

Personally though after so many years with the Guild I just never got on with the more traditional all in one bridge/trem - you get used to resting your palm on the separate bridge and feel of the original style tremolo. A few years ago I paid to have it converted to the original style - I'd already started upgrading it with new pickups, knobs and switches etc. over the years.

When they announced the 40 Guyton handmade replicas for the RS 40th I just couldn't afford one but I can say having seen a few at enthusiast meet ups and briefly played one that for those that have the means they are absolutely well worth it. 

The BMG Super was announce in 2008 and I put my name on the list and some one else dropped out so I do feel very fortunate to have one. These don't have the oak & block-board centre or the bolt on the back of the body but are really very close beyond that - especially if like mine you got the Pro upgrade - replacement tuners, strap buttons and new bridge in the original style (and new pick guard cut to match). The first few years of these they were made in Japan by KZ but recent models moved production to Czech Republic and they stopped lacquering the finger board.

I've had the actual RS in my hands once - only for a few minutes but I never expected even that so it was a real privilege. Like the Guyton and Super the neck is huge but comfortable - in fact I'd struggle to tell those 3 apart by feel except that the original is very much worn and scared up close and something being hand made with 1960's technology isn't the same as computer controlled CNC machines.  

Even if you aren't a fan of Brian the guitar design does have a lot going for it and a wide range of sounds. You do need to use it with a treble booster and try it with an AC30 normal channel on full at least once   These days there are however thankfully more options (power scaling/attenuators/modelling amps and software) to get a close sound at lower volume.

phil_b

MelodicLydian said:

Even if you aren't a fan of Brian the guitar design does have a lot going for it and a wide range of sounds. You do need to use it with a treble booster and try it with an AC30 normal channel on full at least once   These days there are however thankfully more options (power scaling/attenuators/modelling amps and software) to get a close sound at lower volume.

one thing I get disappointed about the red special is it gets pigeon holed as a Queen machine and people only ever seem to use one to replicate "the Brian May tone". I do believe with the switching it is capable of producing many more sounds

MelodicLydian

I'm sure it is natural buyers are mainly after the signature sound but it's true that you can get a wide variety of tones and simulate most of the familiar traditional guitar tones by experimenting with different combinations of pickups and phasing. The short scale length and light strings make it expressive too with a controlled touch.

Cols

I play in a rock covers band, and the Red Special is my standard gigging guitar.  You can cover a massive range of different sounds with it.

Funkfingers

The Red Special circuit sound options are greatly improved by the addition of a master series/parallel switch. This is probably of more relevance to users of Stratocasters, fitted with the GFS scratchplate kit.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

The Red Special circuit sound options are greatly improved by the addition of a master series/parallel switch.

Have you ever tried wiring that circuit up from scratch?

phil_b

I found this interesting build blog

https://www.facebook.com/pg/EternalGP/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1192612227417249

This threat spiked my red special interest again and I started to think could I actually build one?

the original has a unique scale length and string spacing as well as the unusual neck profile. I guess this is Why Brian did not want other guitars after he had got used to the feel of this one together with the fact he was so proud of it. The plastic paint coated oak fingerboard was born out of the need to use what materials he had to hand but I dont think it is necessarily a good option. The roller bridge a major floor in that the rollers can fall out and get lost as it is only the string tension that holds them in place.

The dangers of staring a build for me are as follows . It could easily turn into a money pit and could easily end up costing as much as the BMG version. Mostly because I would need to buy all the tools to build it as well as the materials for the guitar itself and I probably would buy a pre made trem. I am not confident I could produce something of a good standard. I sure I could build the body but carving out a neck that is straight scares me. the Guitars and woods templates would help my confidence but they would add another £80 to the cost (this is the sort of thing that worries me about the cost of the project)

hotpickups

They look great and I’m sure sound and play awesome. However, my only reservation would be the audience, who were in the know, would think my idol was Brian May and I wanted to be him etc which is further from the truth. I have the same feeling about the SRV copy strats that are about. 

If I was in a Queen or SRV tribute band I’d have no qualms then of course  

phil_b

hotpickups said:

They look great and I’m sure sound and play awesome. However, my only reservation would be the audience, who were in the know, would think my idol was Brian May and I wanted to be him etc which is further from the truth. I have the same feeling about the SRV copy strats that are about. 

If I was in a Queen or SRV tribute band I’d have no qualms then of course  

 

you could always try one in a different colour to step away from the tribute band expectations.

Cols

Sadly, the more knowledgeable punters would suspect (perhaps correctly) that it’s your second Red Special, and you’ve got a red one at home.

From experience - using one as my main gigging guitar - the only audience comments I’ve had are of recognition and delight.  We have a couple of Queen songs in our set, but it gets used for everything.  The audience certainly doesn’t expect wall-to-wall Queen.

hotpickups

phil_b said:

hotpickups said:

They look great and I’m sure sound and play awesome. However, my only reservation would be the audience, who were in the know, would think my idol was Brian May and I wanted to be him etc which is further from the truth. I have the same feeling about the SRV copy strats that are about. 

If I was in a Queen or SRV tribute band I’d have no qualms then of course  

 

you could always try one in a different colour to step away from the tribute band expectations.

Lol it’s still a red special in disguise lol 

HarrySeven

Cols said:

I suppose the single John Birch replica made for Brian in the 70s deserves a mention as well.  Didn’t sound right, wouldn’t hold its tuning, and was eventually destroyed by Brian throwing it off the stage in a fit of rage and frustration.

Sounds like a lot of John Birch "masterpieces" (well, the ones I've played anyway - 'inconsistent' doesn't even begin to describe JB's stuff...)