Shipping Insurance - Is it worth it?

Barnezy

I've never had a damaged delivery or something go missing. I'm therefore wondering if shipping insurance is worth it nowadays, that parcel shipping is so good? Overall I've probably spent over £1k in insurance and received nothing in return. If something went missing or got damaged now, and I hadn't been paying insurance, then I'd likely still be better off. 

Isn't this how insurance works, they take more than they pay out. 

Any thoughts on this? Is it worth insuring for half the value, so at least you get something in the worst case? 

Musicwolf

Barnezy said:

Isn't this how insurance works, they take more than they pay out. 

Yes.  It's all about probability.  Insurance companies have loads of data so that they can access the risk and, over a large number of policies / over time, they will pay out less than they receive.  They spread the risk.

You as an individual will either have a problem or you won't, but can you afford to take that chance?

It's very much like gambling.  The casino will offer you odds of 1:1 on red or black because they have the green zero which means your odds of winning are 1+1/18 : 1.  They make 2.7% per spin averaged over thousands of spins.

You place a bet and you either win or you lose.  So punk - do you feel lucky?

skunkwerx

Insurance is just covering a risk. 

So you’re indemnified should you suffer an event you’ve paid to be protected against. 

I mean, a lot of the time nothing will happen. But when it does, the cost of insurance vs what you’ll pay yourself to resolve it is massively different. 

Car insurance is different because its a legality, but for example I see a policy for say £500, they have a claim and that claim costs us near £26k, and it skyrockets into the tens of thousands if personal injury has taken place. 

So insurers have to have finances in place to cover a mass event whereby they need to pay out for everyone should that occur. 

From an individuals standpoint though, an insurer got £500 a year for nothing if they didnt have a claim. 

But the trade was the insurer covered the risk of a year.

With postage, eh, its just a case of taking your chances or stumping up for the peace of mind (and making sure you read the t+c to make sure you’re covered against any event you want to be covered against). 

Its rare but as we’ve seen here, stuff does go missing or turn up broken. And when it does it often leaves you out of pocket. 

TTony

Barnezy said:

Overall I've probably spent over £1k in insurance and received nothing in return.

Nothing - apart from the peace of mind.

It's all down to your attitude to risk.  Do you want to underwrite the risk yourself, or pay someone else a relatively small sum to cover it for you.

If you can afford to lose the contents of a parcel, then don't bother with the insurance.

The law of averages (which is - crudely - how the insurance is priced) suggests that if you've already sent a lot of parcels with no losses, then you're due a loss sooner rather than later.

The law of sod guarantees that the first parcel you send uninsured will be the one that goes AWOL.

monquixote

This is relevant to my interests as I'm about to ship something.

On a purely economic basis it's not worth it because the provider will have worked it out and chosen a price they can make a profit on.

However can you afford to replace the item and deal with the stress if it gets broken.

What I'm more interested to know is has anyone actually had a payout from a courier over a broken guitar?

I don't think I've ever heard of it. Usually they have some kind of snakey exception and wiggle out of it.

bgmartinsbridge

I'd be interested to know the stats for lost parcels and post.

Big parcels ie guitars and small parcel ie pedal size. 

And damage.


Boring I know ha. 

danny_777

Overland shipping insures things for about 1/3 of the cost of parcelforce/interparcel etc - just £10 per £1000.

Pablocrackers

Yeh but do the insurers actually pay out for lost guitars or amps?? Most of the main players wont even cover guitars from what ive seen in there small print. Id be interested to know if anyone has been successful in being paid out for damage or lost item. Otherwise the peace of mind pricetag means nothing

JerkMoans

I've only once had to claim, when a courier - I forget which now - managed to remove a 1977 Strat in a gig bag (oh how I have learned...) from the box in which it had been packed, repacked it in no more than a logo'ed plastic bag, and delivered it with neck damage where the zip on the gig bag had clearly been squashed into the wood of the neck by some force/heavy object placed on top.


In the event the buyer wanted to keep the guitar, so I asked him to get it fixed up and send me the bill, which I paid.

It then took something like 4 months of wrangling to get a relatively modest bill paid, despite having pictures of the packing at my end, of the object received, of the damage, and of the repair bill.  In the end I drafted a County Court claim form, gave them a copy and said words to effect of 'this is being issued on Friday afternoon if you do not capitulate and pay up in cleared funds by 12 noon'.  I think I received the money at around 12.01.  

These days I won't ship without a hard case, a stout cardboard box and a crap ton of packing material in between, AND insurance, although Crom knows the time it takes delaying with these buggers makes one wonder whether it's worth it.

Barnezy

danny_777 said:

Overland shipping insures things for about 1/3 of the cost of parcelforce/interparcel etc - just £10 per £1000.

Who? I can't find them on Google

skunkwerx

Interestingly I had to send a guitar back to Birmingham recently. The shop wouldnt arrange it and deduct from the bill (unlike Andertons who offer this for a measly £15) which is banging because then any issue is on them! 

Anyway, I looked and used overland express who used APC. 

Think it cost me about £40. But APC was a 9-5 collection, whereas DPD who Andertons use give you a 1 hour time slot.

DPD wouldnt quote for me as an individual as the package was too big.. 

So it meant taking a whole day off for it.

I figured I could drive to Birmingham from London for the store opening time and be back for lunch and just spend £20 on fuel to cover it, which is incredibly cheap at the moment as Im getting 2 months to a tank haha! 

That way it was same day delivery, and I know it would get there safe. 

In the end I couldnt be bothered though and just posted it lol. But it was a worry, I think it was in transit for 2 full days and then a further day before the store confirmed it was ok. 

I worried they would make up some Bs that it arrived damaged just to make a return hard.. 

Kittyfrisk

Barnezy said:

danny_777 said:

Overland shipping insures things for about 1/3 of the cost of parcelforce/interparcel etc - just £10 per £1000.

Who? I can't find them on Google

https://www.overlandexpress.co.uk/musical-instrument-courier

Johnnyseven

When I sell something on eBay or whatever I always add a price for postage that includes insurance relative to my estimate of the value (if an auction) or price of the item. That way the buyer pays the insurance, not me.

If returning an item for a refund I would always use insurance and the shops suggested carrier.

phil_b

Barnezy said:

I've never had a damaged delivery or something go missing. I'm therefore wondering if shipping insurance is worth it nowadays, that parcel shipping is so good? Overall I've probably spent over £1k in insurance and received nothing in return. If something went missing or got damaged now, and I hadn't been paying insurance, then I'd likely still be better off. 

Isn't this how insurance works, they take more than they pay out. 

Any thoughts on this? Is it worth insuring for half the value, so at least you get something in the worst case? 

I have often thought this for low risk low cost ( by low cost I mean things you could pay off within 12 months ie up to 2k) things. I often thing you would be better off self insuring ie be disciplined enough to the the price of insurance into a separate bank account and dont touch it. Only use that money to pay yourself back anything you would have claimed for. 

I do believe that for the majority of people over a number of years this would financially beneficial. Although so far I have not been disciplined or organised enough to make it happen

In your case you would now have a 1k pot to cover you. but if you self "claim" occurs before you build up enough to cover it then you have a problem,

hessodreamy

If you do decide to use insurance just make sure the courier will cover instruments, as a lot won’t. But they’ll still take your money for the insurance. 

phil_b

hessodreamy said:

If you do decide to use insurance just make sure the courier will cover instruments, as a lot won’t. But they’ll still take your money for the insurance. 

That is another problem with insurance. You pay and only find out when you try and claim you are not covered due to some cleverly written get out clause in the small print

blacknblack

I have found small print on some couriers that say damage to guitars is not covered.  I am very dubious about the chances of a successful claim.  I still tend to by the cover though!

EricTheWeary

...a new winter coat for the wife and a bicycle on the boy's birthday....


This thread title has got that song in my head! 

I posted something last week. Worth let's say £140. But I had the £40(?) post office cover thinking that if it got lost it would be upsetting but not the end of the universe and the £40 would be of some comfort. If it was a £1400 guitar then I would be more concerned,etc,etc. Hmm, sorry I'm no help.

...it's just a rumour that's been spread around town that someone got killed in...

Adey

Paying to insure someone else to look after your property is a funny thing....

Imagine you are a parcel, and National Express Coaches is the courier delivering you from London to Edinburgh. On the journey you get damaged because the parcel shelf collapses, falls on you and breaks your arm.

When you say to National Express that they need to pay to get you fixed, you would be surprised if they said "sorry, but the insurance you bought from us doesn't cover broken limbs"....

What you would say is " National Express, you are responsible for my safety whilst I'm in your care. Don't be so stupid. Pay up or I'll get Personal Injury Lawyers Is Us onto you"....

You can pay to insure the carrying company's negligence if you want to. It might pay out if you're lucky. But if it doesn't, it is still the carrier's responsibility to look after your stuff. They just don't want to have to pay up for their negligence. They would rather have someone else pay this "cost of doing business".

Pack you stuff sensibly and strongly and you will most likely be fine. Take a photo or two of it instead of buying insurance. If the very unlikely event happens that it is damaged, just be blunt with the carrier to put them right

TTony

phil_b said:

hessodreamy said:

If you do decide to use insurance just make sure the courier will cover instruments, as a lot won’t. But they’ll still take your money for the insurance. 

That is another problem with insurance. You pay and only find out when you try and claim you are not covered due to some cleverly written get out clause in the small print

The problem is that you’ve bought something without checking what you’ve bought.

All policies have to state what’s covered, and what’s excluded (the “small print”).

Thats why I despair when people ask for the cheapest insurance option.  The cheapest is generally the one least likely to pay out.

Barnezy

Quick look in to DPD's insurance policy:

• Amplifiers - maximum Parcel Protection value for damages is £200, up to £2,500 for lost items.
• Guitar - maximum Parcel Protection value for damages is £100, up to £1,000 for lost items. Guitar must be sent in a hard case.

Not great!

Shipping a £1000 amp, you basically pay £60 for £200 of damage cover, that you'need need to fill a ton of forms in to get and cover in the highly unlikely event it gets lost. in this day and age with tracking an item to your door, do things go missing? I know couriers used to do dodgy stuff, but surely that's not possible now?