PSA: Yamaha SG 2000 in yellow. Possible ex-Santana tour guitar

Moleman

Bought a few guitars from this seller always with great transactions. Seller also has a mint 1993 SG 3000 in burgundy for sale https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-SG1500-Rock-Monster-1982-Original-Model-Awesome/143619596615?hash=item2170652147:g:f9IAAOSwewpe07HM

guitars4you

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-SG-2000-Possibly-Santana-Tour-Guitar-Only-Two-Made-SG2000/143629790558?_trkparms=aid%3D1110002%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200423073214%26meid%3Daba7c94c126c484ea59d9af685a0ceca%26pid%3D101113%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D143619596615%26itm%3D143629790558%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3DSellersOtherItemsV2%26brand%3DYamaha&_trksid=p2563228.c101113.m2108

just seen this - Possibly is the key word !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

artiebear

The SG2000 is not worth anything like that, especially without any providence, plus the colour doesn't do much for me.

The SG3000 is nice. The scratch plate is odd though, as the only ones I seen with the "professional" script applied were the later re runs. The two I had back in the early 80's had a plain black plate and a brass one, both without script. The 3000's really are beautifully put together instruments and the original spinnex pick ups in the 80's versions are lovely things.

It does seem that the effects of over inflated pricing by he of the multiple identities on SG's is still having a knock on with regard to other listings that come up.

Moleman

I don’t wish to appear anything less than impartial and no, I don’t have an interest in seeing these guitars sold. The seller is local to me and is someone that I would consider to be a world class collector of Japanese guitars with a specific focus on Yamaha SG’s. The guy arguably had/has the best collection of original, SG’s in all the rare-as-hen’s-teeth/ impossible to find custom editions and colours outside of Japan. I’ve seen many of his guitars (and bought some) first hand and all were as described. 

Agree that “possibly” is the key word but surely the rarity factor on the yellow colour alone has to elevate it from the pack? Obviously if it brings back unfortunate associations with school dinners custard then that may be a plus or minus! 

As for the SG 3000, I’d love to be in the position to take it off of the market (my favourite colour to boot) but at that price it won’t be mine. The thing is though, where are you going to find another one in the same colour and super clean condition?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-SG3000-1993-All-original-The-Ultimate-solid-body-Guitar/143619579769?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

mikeyrob73

“ She has been used and not stored since those days and exhibits some of the evidence but it’s honest usage stuff with nothing more than the odd scuff here and there and no gouges or major dinks except of the back of the headstock where there are a couple of hits .” 

It’s a she, I’m out I only buy male guitars 

richardhomer

From the description, he seems to infer ‘she’ was built in 1984.

IIRC, the Zebop album was ‘81 - featuring Santana playing a PRS on the back cover. 

Does anyone know if he played Yamaha guitars on stage after he got his PRSs?

jeztone2

Regarding his possible ex Santana SG2000.

This is complete nonsense and I’ve reported him. 

Anyone with a brain cell or passing interest knows Santana only played custom made versions of the SG175. Usually with ornate inlay work. I’ve never seen a photo of Carlos with a stock Yamaha SG1000/2000/3000 ever! A quick glance at google images confirms this! I had all the Yamaha brochures as a teen. In every photo he’s holding a custom made SG175 with modifications that he’d specified. The idea he’d have gone near a guitar off the shelf is fanciful bullshit. 

Is this is the same seller on the Yamaha SG Facebook pages? He accused me of threatening him with violence for calling him out over his usual overpriced bullshit. Trying to make out there were “hidden customs charges”. 

Then I threatened libel and the post was deleted. 

You could grey import the same condition and age guitar from Japan and even after duty still have change from £2000. 

There needs to be a tightening up of the law on this. We are coming back to the sort of shit you used to see in classified ads in the 1980’s. 

Philly_Q

richardhomer said:

From the description, he seems to infer ‘she’ was built in 1984.

IIRC, the Zebop album was ‘81 - featuring Santana playing a PRS on the back cover. 

Does anyone know if he played Yamaha guitars on stage after he got his PRSs?

I didn't realise he had a PRS as early as Zebop!, but he's playing a Yamaha on the cover of Freedom (1987), so - although I don't know when that picture was taken - he presumably carried on with Yamaha for a while.

I don't believe this yellow SG's a Santana guitar, but I think it looks really cool.

aroof

artiebear said:

The SG3000 is nice. The scratch plate is odd though, as the only ones I seen with the "professional" script applied were the later re runs. The two I had back in the early 80's had a plain black plate and a brass one, both without script.

The 'Professional' script is erratic but does date to the earliest SG3000 appearances. My initial feeling was the '3000S' model perhaps didn't have the script (this is the model that came without a pickguard installed but with both black plastic and brass ones in the case) but, looking at catalogues there are also instances of the '3000 Custom' also not having it.
Perhaps it is a regional market variation. As is usual though, the print certainly comes off quickly with wear, which makes finding clean examples to draw conclusions difficult.

@jeztone2 ;
It's a different individual. I bought a guitar from this (the 'Santana' one) person and the condition was significantly different from what he described it as. I would have returned it but was in and out of the country at the time. Just my subjective experience, hopefully (probably, knowing my luck) everyone else has done well with him.

The other guy, the one in Scotland shilling for elite vintage guitars on the FB groups, is an odd one. I think maybe he just is not all there or just has more money than sense. And I don't think he is rich!

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

From the description, he seems to infer ‘she’ was built in 1984.

IIRC, the Zebop album was ‘81 - featuring Santana playing a PRS on the back cover. 

Does anyone know if he played Yamaha guitars on stage after he got his PRSs?

Like you Richard, I'm a Santana fan - I can't say I know about every guitar played on every album, or at every live show but I've never seen him play a yellow SG - And surely it is so distinctive it would stand out a mile 

I've heard it said before from many different guitar players - They will be presented with potential new models, from various builders, many times, with the idea that this can be your 'next signature model' - But many just say thanks, but no thanks - So yes there could have been a 'gift' but it doesn't mean he used it, kept it, liked it etc - Without any firm evidence/documentation, from Santana and/or guitar tech/management then it can only be a 'maybe' 

djspecialist

aroof said:

It's a different individual. I bought a guitar from this (the 'Santana' one) person and the condition was significantly different from what he described it as. I would have returned it but was in and out of the country at the time. Just my subjective experience, hopefully (probably, knowing my luck) everyone else has done well with him.

I bought a guitar from lexluthier a few years back, and the cosmetic condition didn't match the description.  The seller was reasonable, and I was able to return the guitar for a full refund without any problems.  Still, personally I would think twice about dealing with him again.

artiebear

aroof said:

artiebear said:

The SG3000 is nice. The scratch plate is odd though, as the only ones I seen with the "professional" script applied were the later re runs. The two I had back in the early 80's had a plain black plate and a brass one, both without script.

The 'Professional' script is erratic but does date to the earliest SG3000 appearances. My initial feeling was the '3000S' model perhaps didn't have the script (this is the model that came without a pickguard installed but with both black plastic and brass ones in the case) but, looking at catalogues there are also instances of the '3000 Custom' also not having it.
Perhaps it is a regional market variation. As is usual though, the print certainly comes off quickly with wear, which makes finding clean examples to draw conclusions difficult.

@jeztone2 ;;
It's a different individual. I bought a guitar from this (the 'Santana' one) person and the condition was significantly different from what he described it as. I would have returned it but was in and out of the country at the time. Just my subjective experience, hopefully (probably, knowing my luck) everyone else has done well with him.

The other guy, the one in Scotland shilling for elite vintage guitars on the FB groups, is an odd one. I think maybe he just is not all there or just has more money than sense. And I don't think he is rich!

You are right to say that things were not always clear spec wise from around '82, when the "s" was added to the SG model number. From approx 1981 had a mix of SG2000, SG2000S, and also at least one SBG2000 (the USA iteration) as my main gigging guitars. I got my first 3000 ( Gold ) in '83, this one being an SBG3000, then got another one an SG3000 (black metallic) a year or so later. I have seen all sorts of stuff written about the spec on these guitars regarding the "s" distinction, but from hands on experience all it really meant was that the coli split was added, this being even more muddied by the fact that all the 3000's I have seen had the then new electronics. I suspect that Yamaha were already committed to SG3000 production when the "s" iteration hit the SG2000 and they decided to run with the new SG3000S moniker, hence both models showing up in initial catalogues. 

As far as the adds go from this guy, I do question his cut and paste statements ( having found previous adds for 3000's from him ) regarding the rarity of these guitars due to the now unobtainable  illegal woods etc. This kind of downright, inaccurate, hyperbole does nothing for me and reminds me a very great deal of the other regular SG seller mentioned in this thread. If I hadn't been told it was a different guy, I would have assumed it was another version of the multiple location, multiple name guy.

Moominpapa

I do like that yellow on the SG.

guitars4you

artiebear said:

aroof said:

artiebear said:

The SG3000 is nice. The scratch plate is odd though, as the only ones I seen with the "professional" script applied were the later re runs. The two I had back in the early 80's had a plain black plate and a brass one, both without script.

The 'Professional' script is erratic but does date to the earliest SG3000 appearances. My initial feeling was the '3000S' model perhaps didn't have the script (this is the model that came without a pickguard installed but with both black plastic and brass ones in the case) but, looking at catalogues there are also instances of the '3000 Custom' also not having it.
Perhaps it is a regional market variation. As is usual though, the print certainly comes off quickly with wear, which makes finding clean examples to draw conclusions difficult.

@jeztone2 ;;
It's a different individual. I bought a guitar from this (the 'Santana' one) person and the condition was significantly different from what he described it as. I would have returned it but was in and out of the country at the time. Just my subjective experience, hopefully (probably, knowing my luck) everyone else has done well with him.

The other guy, the one in Scotland shilling for elite vintage guitars on the FB groups, is an odd one. I think maybe he just is not all there or just has more money than sense. And I don't think he is rich!

You are right to say that things were not always clear spec wise from around '82, when the "s" was added to the SG model number. From approx 1981 had a mix of SG2000, SG2000S, and also at least one SBG2000 (the USA iteration) as my main gigging guitars. I got my first 3000 ( Gold ) in '83, this one being an SBG3000, then got another one an SG3000 (black metallic) a year or so later. I have seen all sorts of stuff written about the spec on these guitars regarding the "s" distinction, but from hands on experience all it really meant was that the coli split was added, this being even more muddied by the fact that all the 3000's I have seen had the then new electronics. I suspect that Yamaha were already committed to SG3000 production when the "s" iteration hit the SG2000 and they decided to run with the new SG3000S moniker, hence both models showing up in initial catalogues. 

I am singing of a fading memory bank now - I was selling these 1st time round in 1978 on-wards - If I recall correctly, Yamaha could not use the SG tag in the USA as Gibson owned the name/brand/initials - Hence the SBG2000

Again if I recall correctly the original SG2000 had no coil tap option, whereas the SG2000S did - I'm certain they had the same pick-ups and for some reason the original SG1000, which again had the same pick-ups, had the coil tap option, so can of weird it was not fitted on the original SG2000 - The original SG1000, with the SG2000 deeper body, ebony board and gold hardware was effectively a SG2000 without the thru neck and sustain block, so certainly not a poor mans SG2000 - It was so closely matched to the SG2000 that shortly after release they 'down graded' the SG1000 to a lower spec, so now there was a bigger differential between the 2 guitars - Even at the time there the SG1500 was a slow seller and few imported compared to other models 

artiebear

guitars4you said:

artiebear said:

aroof said:

artiebear said:

The SG3000 is nice. The scratch plate is odd though, as the only ones I seen with the "professional" script applied were the later re runs. The two I had back in the early 80's had a plain black plate and a brass one, both without script.

The 'Professional' script is erratic but does date to the earliest SG3000 appearances. My initial feeling was the '3000S' model perhaps didn't have the script (this is the model that came without a pickguard installed but with both black plastic and brass ones in the case) but, looking at catalogues there are also instances of the '3000 Custom' also not having it.
Perhaps it is a regional market variation. As is usual though, the print certainly comes off quickly with wear, which makes finding clean examples to draw conclusions difficult.

@jeztone2 ;;;
It's a different individual. I bought a guitar from this (the 'Santana' one) person and the condition was significantly different from what he described it as. I would have returned it but was in and out of the country at the time. Just my subjective experience, hopefully (probably, knowing my luck) everyone else has done well with him.

The other guy, the one in Scotland shilling for elite vintage guitars on the FB groups, is an odd one. I think maybe he just is not all there or just has more money than sense. And I don't think he is rich!

You are right to say that things were not always clear spec wise from around '82, when the "s" was added to the SG model number. From approx 1981 had a mix of SG2000, SG2000S, and also at least one SBG2000 (the USA iteration) as my main gigging guitars. I got my first 3000 ( Gold ) in '83, this one being an SBG3000, then got another one an SG3000 (black metallic) a year or so later. I have seen all sorts of stuff written about the spec on these guitars regarding the "s" distinction, but from hands on experience all it really meant was that the coli split was added, this being even more muddied by the fact that all the 3000's I have seen had the then new electronics. I suspect that Yamaha were already committed to SG3000 production when the "s" iteration hit the SG2000 and they decided to run with the new SG3000S moniker, hence both models showing up in initial catalogues. 

I am singing of a fading memory bank now - I was selling these 1st time round in 1978 on-wards - If I recall correctly, Yamaha could not use the SG tag in the USA as Gibson owned the name/brand/initials - Hence the SBG2000

Again if I recall correctly the original SG2000 had no coil tap option, whereas the SG2000S did - I'm certain they had the same pick-ups and for some reason the original SG1000, which again had the same pick-ups, had the coil tap option, so can of weird it was not fitted on the original SG2000 - The original SG1000, with the SG2000 deeper body, ebony board and gold hardware was effectively a SG2000 without the thru neck and sustain block, so certainly not a poor mans SG2000 - It was so closely matched to the SG2000 that shortly after release they 'down graded' the SG1000 to a lower spec, so now there was a bigger differential between the 2 guitars - Even at the time there the SG1500 was a slow seller and few imported compared to other models 

And just to add more confusion, I remember also having an SG2100 as well. If I remember rightly, an SG2000 with 3000 pick ups. A great guitar from what I remember.
One little bit a weirdness that took me years to notice ( looking at my 2000 beside the 3000 ) is that the 2000 tailpiece is set way further back from the bridge compared with the 3000. I checked this out and found that the 2100 also had this shorter distance applied.
The reason for mentioning the 's' stuff is the, as far as I am concerned, erroneous statement by one SG seller that it meant slim neck. Not on any of mine it didn't .

aroof

@artiebear @guitars4you ;

Thanks a lot both, that's very interesting to read. 

Like I alluded, I've had theories about these things. It's just extremely difficult (impossible?) to be sure.

This is kind of why I get  annoyed by the lack of provenance and Usual Suspect pseuds spreading whatever disinformation suits their purposes now that they are trying to cash out or thin out the weak from their collections. I could just keep typing here but I think people know what I think!

guitars4you

artiebear said:

guitars4you said:

artiebear said:

aroof said:

artiebear said:

The SG3000 is nice. The scratch plate is odd though, as the only ones I seen with the "professional" script applied were the later re runs. The two I had back in the early 80's had a plain black plate and a brass one, both without script.

The 'Professional' script is erratic but does date to the earliest SG3000 appearances. My initial feeling was the '3000S' model perhaps didn't have the script (this is the model that came without a pickguard installed but with both black plastic and brass ones in the case) but, looking at catalogues there are also instances of the '3000 Custom' also not having it.
Perhaps it is a regional market variation. As is usual though, the print certainly comes off quickly with wear, which makes finding clean examples to draw conclusions difficult.

@jeztone2 ;;;
It's a different individual. I bought a guitar from this (the 'Santana' one) person and the condition was significantly different from what he described it as. I would have returned it but was in and out of the country at the time. Just my subjective experience, hopefully (probably, knowing my luck) everyone else has done well with him.

The other guy, the one in Scotland shilling for elite vintage guitars on the FB groups, is an odd one. I think maybe he just is not all there or just has more money than sense. And I don't think he is rich!

You are right to say that things were not always clear spec wise from around '82, when the "s" was added to the SG model number. From approx 1981 had a mix of SG2000, SG2000S, and also at least one SBG2000 (the USA iteration) as my main gigging guitars. I got my first 3000 ( Gold ) in '83, this one being an SBG3000, then got another one an SG3000 (black metallic) a year or so later. I have seen all sorts of stuff written about the spec on these guitars regarding the "s" distinction, but from hands on experience all it really meant was that the coli split was added, this being even more muddied by the fact that all the 3000's I have seen had the then new electronics. I suspect that Yamaha were already committed to SG3000 production when the "s" iteration hit the SG2000 and they decided to run with the new SG3000S moniker, hence both models showing up in initial catalogues. 

I am singing of a fading memory bank now - I was selling these 1st time round in 1978 on-wards - If I recall correctly, Yamaha could not use the SG tag in the USA as Gibson owned the name/brand/initials - Hence the SBG2000

Again if I recall correctly the original SG2000 had no coil tap option, whereas the SG2000S did - I'm certain they had the same pick-ups and for some reason the original SG1000, which again had the same pick-ups, had the coil tap option, so can of weird it was not fitted on the original SG2000 - The original SG1000, with the SG2000 deeper body, ebony board and gold hardware was effectively a SG2000 without the thru neck and sustain block, so certainly not a poor mans SG2000 - It was so closely matched to the SG2000 that shortly after release they 'down graded' the SG1000 to a lower spec, so now there was a bigger differential between the 2 guitars - Even at the time there the SG1500 was a slow seller and few imported compared to other models 

And just to add more confusion, I remember also having an SG2100 as well. If I remember rightly, an SG2000 with 3000 pick ups. A great guitar from what I remember.
One little bit a weirdness that took me years to notice ( looking at my 2000 beside the 3000 ) is that the 2000 tailpiece is set way further back from the bridge compared with the 3000. I checked this out and found that the 2100 also had this shorter distance applied.
The reason for mentioning the 's' stuff is the, as far as I am concerned, erroneous statement by one SG seller that it meant slim neck. Not on any of mine it didn't .

I forgot about the SG2100 - I can't remember many of them in the day - If I recall, Yamaha UK never had a decent stock for me to ring up and select say 2/3 for stock from a selection of say 10/20 - It was more a case of take what they had 

Never knew about the tailpiece gap etc - Learn something everyday - Like you said, more noticeable when you have a few side by side to compare

I think the SG3000 was designed with the Whitesnake guys in mind and recall they had some input about it 

HarrySeven

aroof said:

The other guy, the one in Scotland shilling for elite vintage guitars on the FB groups, is an odd one. 

Indeed. The list of SG-related sites/groups peddled by this (real or fictitious) sockpuppet keeps on growing, but they all point to one place...

Philly_Q

guitars4you said:

I think the SG3000 was designed with the Whitesnake guys in mind and recall they had some input about it 

I didn't know that, but now you mention it I seem to remember Bernie Marsden using one?  I know Dave Meniketti from Y&T had one around 1982 or 1983.