Classified descriptions vs reality

pjf

Let me start by saying I’ve greatly benefited from the Classifieds section on here. I’m certainly not the most prolific user but I’ve bought and sold some fantastic instruments through the Classifieds over the past few years and it’s without question a valuable resource. 

That said, I’ve been pretty let down on two recent occasions. Without naming names or going into the specifics of the guitars concerned, both have needed extensive work doing to them. Both needed extensive fret levelling and crowning. One was unplayable and needing work on the nut (which wasn’t the material described in the ad) and neck relief adjustments; and the other was dead on arrival, pickups not working and, again, neck relief all wrong. That’s not my diagnosis - they’ve gone to a local tech that comes highly recommended on The Fretboard. Total cost for the works will be ~£250.

I wouldn’t (and couldn’t) complain if these were set-up issues related purely to a preferred action or changing from 10s to 11s, etc. But they’re not. More to the point, both guitars were described in their adverts as having been to a tech or having great playability, etc. 

I don’t know what to do, if anything. Maybe I should just suck it up. Caveat emptor and all that; and there’s bound to be a few bad apples when distance buying. Maybe I’m only annoyed because my other experiences of buying/selling through the Classifieds have gone so well! Maybe I should ask the sellers to contribute to the repair costs given that the guitars weren’t as-described. I suppose this is what the Feedback thread is for, as well.

Anyway, mini-rant over; comments and advice welcome! 

Funkfingers

Playability is subjective.

A bass guitar that I sold via this forum had an action to suit my fairly hard-hitting playing style. The purchaser needed the action and relief to be much lower and straighter to suit his extremely light touch.

In this instance, the instrument had not had very much playing. Hence, its frets were in good condition.

Iamnobody

One man’s unplayable could be another’s not bothered me at all I only played cowboy chords on it. However, if they’ve been advertised as something that’s great and been fettled by a tech then take that up with the sellers. 

merciful-evans

I once bought a 80s guitar on ebay that was as described. What was not described was the problem. The frets were uncrowned and too low for remedial crowning. In other words, a refret would be ideally needed. However it plays fine and I dont notice intonation issues.

The worst thing was that the thing reeked. I'm not fussy about a bit of tobacco smell, but this came wrapped in brown bubble wrap. It was once clear bubble wrap that had become caked in tobacco residue. It took a whole year of periodic cleaning to fumigate it. 

You just cant foresee every problem...

RaymondLin

To be the Devil’s advocate. “Plays like butter” is just something every one writes on their ad, I would not take that as gospel. Things like frets, I guess it is up to the buyer to ask for more photos, it is not something one can hide. Unless they miss out things like a neck break or a massive noticeable chip and ding, I personally don’t worry about it unless it is something totally 180 to the ad, like “mint, as new”, then you get it and it needs a refret.

mikeyrob73

I always try and be as honest as possible on any listing, pics of frets etc, but set up is purely subjective

stonevibe

Smells like butter

danny_777

That's so annoying. I always give my guitars a comprehensive setup before sending. Sort the neck relief, polish the frets, clean and oil the fretboard, and put a new set of strings on with a killer action. 

It takes hours and adds no value, but it makes for happy buyers and that's important to me.

danny_777

pjf said:

Let me start by saying I’ve greatly benefited from the Classifieds section on here. I’m certainly not the most prolific user but I’ve bought and sold some fantastic instruments through the Classifieds over the past few years and it’s without question a valuable resource. 

That said, I’ve been pretty let down on two recent occasions. Without naming names or going into the specifics of the guitars concerned, both have needed extensive work doing to them. Both needed extensive fret levelling and crowning. One was unplayable and needing work on the nut (which wasn’t the material described in the ad) and neck relief adjustments; and the other was dead on arrival, pickups not working and, again, neck relief all wrong. That’s not my diagnosis - they’ve gone to a local tech that comes highly recommended on The Fretboard. Total cost for the works will be ~£250.

I wouldn’t (and couldn’t) complain if these were set-up issues related purely to a preferred action or changing from 10s to 11s, etc. But they’re not. More to the point, both guitars were described in their adverts as having been to a tech or having great playability, etc. 

I don’t know what to do, if anything. Maybe I should just suck it up. Caveat emptor and all that; and there’s bound to be a few bad apples when distance buying. Maybe I’m only annoyed because my other experiences of buying/selling through the Classifieds have gone so well! Maybe I should ask the sellers to contribute to the repair costs given that the guitars weren’t as-described. I suppose this is what the Feedback thread is for, as well.

Anyway, mini-rant over; comments and advice welcome! 

I've had this issue with two guitars I bought on eBay - both needed refretting as the frets were so worn. In each case I sent a polite message to the seller expressing my disppointment, with quotes for the work needed. In each case they offered to pay half or more of the work needed, which was okay by me. I would suggest that your seller pays you £150-200, or you return the guitar.

WezV

 My experience shows people always surprised by how well their guitars play after a relatively small amount of attention on nut and frets.... The flip side of that is there must be many people out there playing guitars they think are fine which could be a lot better

CountryDave

mikeyrob73 said:

I always try and be as honest as possible on any listing, pics of frets etc, but set up is purely subjective

Exactly this.  I recently bought a PRS SE from @mikeyrob73 and a damn fine guitar it is too.  Picked it up from him and could see it was as described.

As soon as I got it home I changed up a string gauge and lifted the action to my taste.  Another purchase dropped the gauge but again lifted the action to my taste.

One mans nice low action is another mans too low action.

pjf

mikeyrob73 said:

I always try and be as honest as possible on any listing, pics of frets etc, but set up is purely subjective

Thanks for all responses. I agree that set-ups are subjective but if you saw one of the guitars you wouldn’t be able to say that with a straight face... the strings were resting on every fret from 14-20 so there was no way to play anything, lightest of touches or not, without horrendous buzzing. Also one had a nut fitted that was too big for the neck, which wasn’t clear from the photos in the ad. The tech I took the guitars to identified these various issues within minutes and was shaking his head when I read out the ad descriptions. 

I’m more in line with what @danny_777 has written. But usually prefer buyers play the guitars for themselves first  

Wazmeister

Unacceptable.

This Forum, imho, is based upon honesty and trust. Its unwritten, but its there...
It has to be there if we use Paypal Family & Friends.

To the OP, you can suck it up, but the first step is to contact the seller amd kindly explain the problem (as you probably have). After that, I would expectbthe forum (unwritten) ‘code of honour’ to kick in,

Moominpapa

Set up may be subjective, but pickups not working is pretty bad. Either the instrument has taken a hefty impact during shipping or the seller has been 'economic with the truth'.

mbe

Seller obviously made an error of judgement and buyer is entitled to remedy. 

DB1

I tend not to buy or sell using couriers, but one that I did receive turned up absolutely filthy, with all sorts of crud around and under the bridge, and under the strings, headstock, hardware. It was pretty disgusting - I always clean the guitar up anyway, but this one took about three hours. I did think that especially in times of pandemic and emphasis on cleanliness that the least it could have had is a cloth rubbed over it.

It took about three hours to get it right - nothing wrong with the guitar as it happened, but it's a bit discourteous so send something out that's filthy.

guitars4you

WezV said:

  The flip side of that is there must be many people out there playing guitars they think are fine which could be a lot better

I tend to agree

I see loads of e-mails, or receive many phone calls, from customers with a potential trade in, or a guitar for sale and their perception of condition, set-up is so different to mine/others

I appreciate that a host of adjectives can be used to describe the condition - But I'm amazed how many say mint, as new etc, only to find a host of compression marks from buckle wear, etc - Granted many are slight, but slight enough for it not to be mint - Mention it to the customer and you normally get 'I didn't notice' - Probably genuine comment - Same applies to fret wear and/or other slight issues - I think it is often based on ignorance and/or their opinion and not something that is done deliberately 

I have to be be careful commenting on such issues, as I dare say the odd time or two, a customer has probably had some issue with my web site comments - But you try to minimize such issues and handle any 'negative comments' accordingly

I know more sales today are on-line - But even so I wish to present all guitars for sale, with a sensible set-up that will hopefully entice a potential buyer to purchase the guitar - No use offering it for sale with dirty strings, dirty frets and a host of negative issues that will either a) mean the customer can't correctly evaluate the guitar, hence no purchase and/or b) want a hefty discount to correct - In short, I believe the guitar is the salesman and not me - If presented for sale correctly you are more likely to sell it

Fishboy7

I would always expect to tweak the truss rod and action on any guitar acquisition - used or new.  

What you have there sounds a bit extreme though and hard to believe the seller wouldn't have noticed 

drofluf

OK, I’m getting nervous. Got my first guitar purchase from the classifieds here arriving today

danny_777

DB1 said:

I tend not to buy or sell using couriers, but one that I did receive turned up absolutely filthy, with all sorts of crud around and under the bridge, and under the strings, headstock, hardware. It was pretty disgusting - I always clean the guitar up anyway, but this one took about three hours. I did think that especially in times of pandemic and emphasis on cleanliness that the least it could have had is a cloth rubbed over it.

It took about three hours to get it right - nothing wrong with the guitar as it happened, but it's a bit discourteous so send something out that's filthy.

I had that recently as well. I didn't feel like I could knock the price down just because it was filthy, but it was a bit gross.

Then again I also find bringing unloved guitars 'back to life' extremely cathartic. I'm never happier then when I'm sat there on a Sunday, surrounded by my tools, taking a guitar from shitfest to player!! It's so rewarding.

mort

There have been a few threads over the years where people have said things like “it was a dog, so I moved it on”.......