Martin D-35 - terrific guitar but...

AlbertC

I demoed a terrific sounding mid 70s D-35 - I loved the tone, though there's a couple of things I had some concern about.
This is some of what the the sales description says -

The finish is original, as is the bridge although it has been re-glued after lifting. Our luthiers also gave the top wood some heat treatment to reduced (sic) any bellying.

The play- ability was excellent but the bellying had not necessarily been eliminated 100% - while not severe, I could still notice a small amount when I looked from the side. Is this somewhat acceptable/expected in a 40-50 year old guitar?  

And something else - there was a crack in the saddle bridge running between the central four peg holes. They seemed genuinely unaware when I pointed this out and said it's something that must have happened since the bridge work was done. They're going to repair the saddle and let me know when it's done if I'm still interested in the guitar.

I really liked this guitar - it played great and sounded fabulous, but I'm a little anxious..or am I overly fretting (no pun intended) about issues that assuming they are repaired competently, aren't catastrophic?

NB - it would come with a 3 year guarantee

danishbacon

Old acoustics often require maintenance. If the guitar plays and sounds well, that’s ultimately matters as long as the overall condition is factored into the price. To be honest, from what you’ve described the bridge crack would be my biggest concern but 3 year warranty also gives some peace of mind. Ultimately, it sounds like a guitar that has lived its life with heavier gauge strings and there are other 70s martins around to be had. If it’s something you can live with, great, but the fact that you are asking questions maybe underscores hesitation. 

Brize

If you're talking about bellying behind the bridge, you do want something there - you don't want the top to be completely flat.

Andy79

Saddle or bridge crack? 
As Brize says, belly behind the bridge is fine as long as the bridge isn’t leaning forwards 

ICBM

How much is it? If it's not a bargain then I would be cautious. A badly bellied top requiring heat treatment and a cracked bridge are not a good sign really.

AlbertC

Andy79 said:

Saddle or bridge crack? 

Whoops - I meant bridge

Andy79 said:

As Brize says, belly behind the bridge is fine as long as the bridge isn’t leaning forwards 

Hmmm, I think it might've been slightly...wish I'd taken some pics now

danishbacon

Is the price near 20% of what a decent one goes for? If so, flip the question, would you be willing to pay 20% and know the guitar has not had what is a combination of invasive procedures? A neck reset, fine. Cracked and lifted bridge with heat treated top is another story. 

AlbertC

ICBM said:

How much is it? If it's not a bargain then I would be cautious. 

Not totally sure what a 70s D-35 should go for - in the UK around the high £2Ks/£3K? (going by Reverb)
This is in that range so no, not a bargain

ICBM

AlbertC said:

Not totally sure what a 70s D-35 should go for - in the UK around the high £2Ks/£3K? (going by Reverb)

This is in that range so no, not a bargain

Sounds like a typical dealer selling a guitar with issues for the full price. A 3-year guarantee is good, but bear in mind that problems like the top re-bellying - heat treatment is often not a permanent solution - could easily return after that. It's not a long time compared to the lifespan of a nice old guitar.

As Brize said, a small belly in the top is normal and in fact desirable, but a severe one, especially if the top and the bridgeplate have buckled enough to allow the bridge to crack, is a very different thing. For the bridge to crack on the top it must be arched underneath, and it shouldn't be.

AlbertC

Thanks for the opinions and advice chaps.
I think I've come to the conclusion that the wise thing to do is forget this and wait for a better guitar to come along - though it did sound superb...gutted 

ICBM

Acoustic guitars often do sound best when they’re right on the point of self-destruction...

AlbertC

ICBM said:

Acoustic guitars often do sound best when they’re right on the point of self-destruction...

Ha ha - is there any truth in that or is it just a romantic notion?
A light bulb/sun burns brightest just before its death......


BTW - if anyone knows of any nice D35s for sale (other than the obvious Reverb, Ebay) it would be appreciated

ICBM

AlbertC said:

ICBM said:

Acoustic guitars often do sound best when they’re right on the point of self-destruction...

Ha ha - is there any truth in that or is it just a romantic notion?
A light bulb/sun burns brightest just before its death......

In my experience there's a lot of truth in it. When the tension is just below the point where it's capable of tearing the whole thing apart, you get the most response to the string movement which produces the most volume and often the best tone. The real trick with acoustic instrument building is to allow that near-point-of-destruction response to occur without actually being too close to the breaking point. It's why in general, heavy overbuilt guitars don't sound that good and light ones do.

However, there's a difference between an instrument being properly designed to reach that point, and one which got there by accident... one will last a long time, the other probably won't. To me, your description of the Martin is one where it's got there by accident and there isn't really a guarantee it will hold up in the future - even with a three-year warranty from the shop. Worse, if it does need more major remedial work and it then is made stable, that fantastic tone you paid for may disappear.

So I would happily buy a guitar like that *if* it was cheap enough to both allow for the cost of the work if or when it becomes necessary, and to then sell it on without loss if you don't love the result - bearing in mind that it will also have been "devalued" (yes I know that's ridiculous, but it's a fact of the vintage guitar market) if it's had something major like the top rebuilt. It would have to be very substantially cheaper than the 'going rate' for that to be true.

The problem is that sellers usually don't price old guitars with issues in that way.

randella

Not sure if this will help at all, maybe it'll vindicate your decision not to buy...

My favourite guitar of all time is my dad's D-35, bought new some time in the mid-80's.  I was playing it the other day and it's getting better with age if you ask me.  I've never been a massive one for the 'vintage mojo' thing but the sound and feel of this guitar is amazing.

I learned to play on it in the late 80's, and probably didn't treat it with the gentlest touch.  That said, apart from a small amount of fret wear, it's been absolutely rock-solid.  I'm certain that it's not even had a tweak of the truss rod in three decades.  I can't think it's ever been kept in a case.  It still plays with a good, low action and stays in tune better than any of my Strats.  And certainly my Les Paul!

It's had no adjustments of the bridge, the tuning keys (which I'm sure are rebranded Schallers) still feel as good as new.  The ebony fingerboard is black as the night sky with a lovely, almost oily feel.  The spruce front, nut, and saddle have all gone the colour of strong tea but the guitar remains playing as well as the day it was made.

When I read your original post, I was wary of chipping in as I really don't know anything about acoustic guitar repairs, but knowing my dad's D as well as I do I'd be a little cautious of spending big money on one that's had this level of work.

AlbertC

@ICBM ; - Cheers I appreciate your expertise and the advice 

Andy79

https://www.glennsguitars.com/

Glenn always has stock of old Martins. 

crunchman

Andy79 said:

https://www.glennsguitars.com/

Glenn always has stock of old Martins. 

Some nice looking guitars there.  An HD28V and a Santa Cruz Pre war D are both likely to be great guitars.

AlbertC

Andy79 said:

https://www.glennsguitars.com/

Glenn always has stock of old Martins. 

Thanks

crunchman said:

Some nice looking guitars there.  An HD28V and a Santa Cruz Pre war D are both likely to be great guitars.

Yep, both those would definitely be of interest

AlbertC

@Andy79 Just wanted to thanks again for that steer on Glenn's Guitars.

I visited Glenn today and came away with a terrific 1979 Martin HD28. I might do a separate NGD post with the experience of buying from Glenn -

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/187880/ngd-1979-martin-hd28#latest

@drofluf - there you go 

drofluf

Pictures or it never happened!

Congratulations hope you enjoy it

prlgmnr

Andy79 said:

https://www.glennsguitars.com/

Glenn always has stock of old Martins. 

Why's the best stuff always in London...