I've only ever used modern-production valves in my amps, mostly JJ, EHx and unbranded Chinese. I'm curious to try a couple of old ones to see what the fuss is about, but I'm not going to spend silly money on them just for an experiment. I'd be after 12AX7/ECC83 mostly. The obvious Mullards and Brimars seem to sell for rather high prices - are there any others that are considered better than modern ones but less expensive? What I'd consider "better" would be more clarity, possibly slightly smoother overdrive. My current amp is an Orange Rocker 30, currently with Chinese preamp valves and JJ EL34s. Presumably changing the first position ECC83 would have most effect (I think that is the clean channel and first stage of the dirty channel). Obviously the Orange is a fairly dark amp, so slightly brighter sounding valves wouldn't be a bad thing (I generally like darkish sound though), but I wouldn't want to lose the warmth on the clean channel (which has no tone control). I don't use high gain, except when messing about.
If there's a noobs guide to old valves thread already, feel free to point me at it (I couldn't find one with a quick search)
So, what's worth looking out for without needing to be loaded?
Comments
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
" Presumably changing the first position ECC83 would have most effect"
Don't bet on it! MUCH of course depends upon any specific amp's topology but the first stage triode is hardly ever driven hard enough to make a difference (from a guitar that is. Paying thru the "NOS" for valves and then using a silicon pedal seems a bit daft to me?) .
Once amped up by some 30dB+ the signal is big enough to do some tonal carnage. I seem to recall ICBM saying a PI can have an effect?
Front end valves need selecting for low noise, hum and microphony, qualities which are sadly poorer in new stock in my view.
But yes, old pre amp valves rarely failed. Even 6V6s in radios would easily do a couple of decades but then of course they were never abused.
Dave.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
IF! You do it can you please make a recording before and after?
Dave,
This is what I have found recently, after buying a nos RCA for V1 of my 5F6A. I'm now also looking for some nos 12AX7s for V2 and V3, I'll be interested in what you go for Dartmoor, keep us informed. I have a couple of nos 6L6WGBs for the power too, I'll also do a before and after recording once fully sorted out.
Do you experts think a nos rectifier affects the sound too? There seems to be conflicting arguments online, with some of the nos sellers saying it can make lots of difference (but they would say that, wouldn't they?).
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I don't see why the Chinese can't do it - they clearly know how to make valves, they just need a vintage recipe book surely?
It would be lovely to be able to buy higher quality vintage style valves as a 'premium' range.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
On the valve quality/cost issue.
The only solution I see is for those that use the valves to get together with the valve manufctrs and come up with a list of types to build into the future?
This will of course put some noses out of joint* but as I see things, better to build a fer basic types really well and get a decent return from those than try to please everyone, badly.
Us gitampists seem to think the valve "world" revolves about us but I have read that the Hi Fi industry uses far more valves than the guitar amp boys?
*I would for instance see the 12BH7 go the way of the Dodo. I believe Ampeg use them, anything else?
Dave.