P90s in the blender?

Powderfinger

Question if any one can help please..

Starting out on a goldtop project with P90s.

Considering master volume, master tone and blend pot between the P90s.

Not much if anything at all online for wiring or examples.

I'm thinking is there a reason for that????

Anyone done this??

Funkfingers

The original Gibson ES-5 had three volume pots and a single master tone. All pickup permutations were the product of balancing the levels between the three P90s. This design was rapidly superseded by the ES-5 Switchmaster. 

IMO, twin P90s via a dual-ganged “balance” pot is going to suffer from too much loading except at the two extremes of the resistance tracks’ travel.

Do not let my opinion prevent you from trying a few wiring experiments. e.g. Balance pot, in conjunction with phase reversal, could certainly create some interesting tones.

Powderfinger

Funkfingers said:

The original Gibson ES-5 had three volume pots and a single master tone. All pickup permutations were the product of balancing the levels between the three P90s. This design was rapidly superseded by the ES-5 Switchmaster. 

IMO, twin P90s via a dual-ganged “balance” pot is going to suffer from too much loading except at the two extremes of the resistance tracks’ travel.

Do not let my opinion prevent you from trying a few wiring experiments. e.g. Balance pot, in conjunction with phase reversal, could certainly create some interesting tones.

Thanks, that's really helpful, It's my first build and just having a go for some occupational therapy with all the Covid nonsense. Think I'll keep it simple, maybe master tone and volume with threeway switch is the way to go.I admire your knowledge - I don't even know what phase reversal is! LOL.

ICBM

There are a couple of ways to get a blend without loading problems.

You can use a dedicated dual-gang balance pot where each half is full resistance from the centre point to each end and the taper is over the other half of the turn, so both pickups are at full volume at the centre point - you’ll often find these in modern basses.

Or use a series blend - this can be done with a simple linear pot, but it means that one of the pickups must have the coil ground separate from the shield (most P90s don’t), and the blended sound is not the same as a standard parallel mix.

But to be honest I’ve never found either of these particularly useful since the range of sounds either side of the centre are quite limited, before the quieter pickup becomes inaudible. It’s just simpler to fit a switch, and easier to use in my opinion.

Jez6345789

Interesting 
Without derailing the OP's thread I got the Swamp Ash GF6 off @GSPBASSES recently and was pondering how to set that up and the rough idea was a p90 and a broadcaster pickup with some sort of ability to blend them as they are tonally much more opposed than two p90's and having the ability to mix them rather than just have a standard middle position seemed like a good idea but I have not played with that idea before. 

Again is there really not much benefit over just a standard three-way tonally. 

Jimbro66

ICBM said:

But to be honest I’ve never found either of these particularly useful since the range of sounds either side of the centre are quite limited, before the quieter pickup becomes inaudible. It’s just simpler to fit a switch, and easier to use in my opinion.

This is exactly what I've found when experimenting with dual-gang balance pots for blending. Really not worth the effort IMO.

An alternative pickup blend method is simpler but always has one pickup at full volume and the other pickup is gradually blended in. So the blended sounds are limited but it works and gives just a little more variation than just having a selector switch. Joe Gore has a demo video of that method.

Funkfingers

Powderfinger said:

goldtop … with P90s.

My bestest Gibson is a LP Standard Goldtop P90. For me, one of the important things about this design is the boring, old four pot control layout. Separate tone controls make it possible to instantly flip between a bright or raunchy sound on the bridge/Treble pickup to a smooth or swampy one on the neck/Rhythm pickup and back again.

By contrast, the controls on my upgraded PRS SE (singlecut) Soapbar are MV, MT and a Switchcraft three-way toggle selector. This obliges me to be quicker about adjusting the controls. Fortunately, on the PRS SE, the tone control and toggle are relatively close together.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

My bestest Gibson is a LP Standard Goldtop P90. For me, one of the important things about this design is the boring, old four pot control layout. Separate tone controls make it possible to instantly flip between a bright or raunchy sound on the bridge/Treble pickup to a smooth or swampy one on the neck/Rhythm pickup and back again.

By contrast, the controls on my upgraded PRS SE (singlecut) Soapbar are MV, MT and a Switchcraft three-way toggle selector. This obliges me to be quicker about adjusting the controls. Fortunately, on the PRS SE, the tone control and toggle are relatively close together.

That's exactly why I always prefer the simple one-volume, one-tone, switch set-up - my most-used sound by far is both pickups, and on a four-knob guitar if I want to adjust the volume I then have to move both volume controls by the same amount, which is fiddly and impossible to do quickly without messing up the balance.

Different solutions for different approaches...

normula1

Me too, I always have a 50/50 blend on the both setting on a twin pickup guitar and two vols is a complete pain.

Powderfinger

ICBM said:

Funkfingers said:

My bestest Gibson is a LP Standard Goldtop P90. For me, one of the important things about this design is the boring, old four pot control layout. Separate tone controls make it possible to instantly flip between a bright or raunchy sound on the bridge/Treble pickup to a smooth or swampy one on the neck/Rhythm pickup and back again.

By contrast, the controls on my upgraded PRS SE (singlecut) Soapbar are MV, MT and a Switchcraft three-way toggle selector. This obliges me to be quicker about adjusting the controls. Fortunately, on the PRS SE, the tone control and toggle are relatively close together.

That's exactly why I always prefer the simple one-volume, one-tone, switch set-up - my most-used sound by far is both pickups, and on a four-knob guitar if I want to adjust the volume I then have to move both volume controls by the same amount, which is fiddly and impossible to do quickly without messing up the balance.

Different solutions for different approaches...

Sorry all, been away for a while mostly funerals.

Thanks guys (in the non gender sense of course) to all, for your very helpful comments much appreciated. I too like a 50/50 blend it just seems to work with P90s and totally get funkfingers point. I first came across this set up with an Adam Black Orion I bought it's a joy, so simple to dial in good tone. I love the big chunky neck and great sustain. So one Vol One tone it is for me.

Thanks all again