£100 to spend on a pair of 6L6's

ryanverbena

I've upgraded the preamp glassware in my Two Rock Studio Signature and have since managed to sell £100 worth of tubes from my old amp. I'm looking to invest this money in some new power tubes for the Two Rock. I like big clean headroom, althoug I know that's a vague term. 

Currently I have these two on my radar, any advice? Or are there better options.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jan-6L6WGB-Sylvania-New-Old-Stock-Valve-Tube-Matched-Pair-A/392523349862?hash=item5b6436ff66:g:bEgAAOSwKc5dxCXD

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-6L6GC-ERA-SYLVANIA-Black-Plate-Valves-Tubes-Tested-Strong-V31/174100839684?epid=1929449304&hash=item288937fd04:g:~CkAAOSweoRd0-nR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-6L6GB-TUBE-FIVRE-PAIR-NOS-OB-EQ-MULLARD-6L6-6L6GA-TEST-SEL-TV7/114205514914?hash=item1a972ddca2:g:YnQAAOSwpDdU6e4u

Obviously if anyone has any cheaper or better suited options then I'm all ears. 

Thanks!

exocet

The two options that I rate are:

1. Jan / Philips 6L6 WGB  (small bottle form factor) Also sold under different brands e.g. Siemens / Sylvania. This is in your 1st eBay link. These were used by U.S military and as such manufacturing was still taking place in early 1980's.

https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=1313

2. Svetlana  6L6 Original Winged C branded.

https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=273

ICBM

ryanverbena said:

I like big clean headroom, althoug I know that's a vague term.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-6L6GC-ERA-SYLVANIA-Black-Plate-Valves-Tubes-Tested-Strong-V31/174100839684?epid=1929449304&hash=item288937fd04:g:~CkAAOSweoRd0-nR

These. Sylvania 6L6GCs are the biggest-sounding, highest-headroom, clearest 6L6s ever made.

(Apart from the ruggedised military-spec version of the same thing, the 7581A - http://www.nosvacuumtubes.net/product/7581a-philips-ecg-sylvania/.)

6L6WGBs are really nice-sounding, but better in lower-voltage circuits where you're trying to get power valve overdrive, in my opinion.

ryanverbena

ICBM said:

ryanverbena said:

I like big clean headroom, althoug I know that's a vague term.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-6L6GC-ERA-SYLVANIA-Black-Plate-Valves-Tubes-Tested-Strong-V31/174100839684?epid=1929449304&hash=item288937fd04:g:~CkAAOSweoRd0-nR

These. Sylvania 6L6GCs are the biggest-sounding, highest-headroom, clearest 6L6s ever made.

(Apart from the ruggedised military-spec version of the same thing, the 7581A - http://www.nosvacuumtubes.net/product/7581a-philips-ecg-sylvania/.)

6L6WGBs are really nice-sounding, but better in lower-voltage circuits where you're trying to get power valve overdrive, in my opinion.

Thanks John, I think the Sylvania black plates are what i'm after - in your opinion do you think this price is reasonable?

ICBM

ryanverbena said:

Thanks John, I think the Sylvania black plates are what i'm after - in your opinion do you think this price is reasonable?

If they're in good shape it is. The problem is knowing how they've been tested... in a valve tester isn't enough, you need to run them at guitar-amp voltages and currents to be sure.

ryanverbena

ICBM said:

ryanverbena said:

Thanks John, I think the Sylvania black plates are what i'm after - in your opinion do you think this price is reasonable?

If they're in good shape it is. The problem is knowing how they've been tested... in a valve tester isn't enough, you need to run them at guitar-amp voltages and currents to be sure.

Given that problem can only be resolved once purchased, does that mean that every tube purchased that isn't guaranteed by the seller is bit of a leap of faith? An expensive one at that when you're talking about NOS and rare big-bottle types. 

It's making me rethink whether to just settle for a lower quality tube from an authorised seller

ICBM

ryanverbena said:

Given that problem can only be resolved once purchased, does that mean that every tube purchased that isn't guaranteed by the seller is bit of a leap of faith? An expensive one at that when you're talking about NOS and rare big-bottle types.

Yes. Although I would tend to trust a seller who says they’ve tested them in an amp.

Even then, valves can fail without warning at any time. After shipping is quite common, especially for power valves - they’re more prone to shock damage than preamps.

At least if you buy on Ebay you have some protection.

PeteC

I realize the current draw might be too much for your current amp but if your after lots of clean headroom then maybe try an amp with KT88 s or 6550s at some point.  I know 6550 get a bad rep from some of the Marshall user community as they were retrofitted In early US import Marshall’s but actually they can sound very good if you want clear and bold tones.   Just a thought 

ryanverbena

PeteC said:

I realize the current draw might be too much for your current amp but if your after lots of clean headroom then maybe try an amp with KT88 s or 6550s at some point.  I know 6550 get a bad rep from some of the Marshall user community as they were retrofitted In early US import Marshall’s but actually they can sound very good if you want clear and bold tones.   Just a thought 

Hi Pete,

I used KT88's in my (now sold) Marshall SV20H and I really liked what they did. I still have them actually, will hold onto them for future use for sure. I'm not sure they are suitable for my current amp - the Two Rock manual states that "this amp was built for 6L6WGC short bottle power tube".

It came stock with TAD 6L6WGC's which sound fine, my curiosity always has me looking to change things around. On a similar note, it came fitted with Tungsol 12ax7's in the preamp section (12at7 for reverb). I replaced V1 with a NOS Brimar 12ax7 courtesy of @ICBM which sounds fantastic. I'm wondering whether it would be worthwhile replacing the phase inverter with a NOS tube as well. 

PeteC

KT88 and 6550 draw a lot more heater current than the 6l6 so would likely need a different power transformer or amp 

ICBM

PeteC said:

KT88 and 6550 draw a lot more heater current than the 6l6 so would likely need a different power transformer or amp 

Yes, without checking the spec of the PT I wouldn't do that. You can directly substitute 6550s for the 6L6s in Fender Bassman 70s and 135s, but that's because the bass amps have fewer preamp valves than the guitar amps that use the same PTs (Twin, Showman and Pro) so there's a bit of spare capacity.

They're also OK in Marshalls because EL34s draw more filament current than 6L6s anyway, but they need a bias change.

Ossyrocks

I have the following if they’re of any interest.

JAN Philips 7581A, matched pair, used but good and clean looking. Tested 10 and 10 for gain/matching on my VT1000.

Sylvania 6L6GC, matched pair, used but good, slightly more used looking than the above. Tested 8 and 8 for gain/matching on my VT1000.

I have used both these pairs in amps in the past, so I’m confident they are ok. I’m sure I can do these in your budget. PM if you’re interested.

I have a lot of valves I’m intending to sell, but the whole photo/imgur/create a thread/motivation thing means I haven’t yet. 

Rob

ICBM

Ossyrocks said:

JAN Philips 7581A, matched pair, used but good and clean looking. Tested 10 and 10 for gain/matching on my VT1000.

^ No affiliation with Ossyrocks at all, but buy those .

I put a pair in my Mesa DC-5 (replacing the stock Mesa Chinese ones), and when I was setting it up at the first band practice afterwards the drummer and bass player stopped what they were doing and asked what I'd done to it... the improvement was absolutely vast.

ryanverbena

Thanks both John for the advice and Rob for the offer - 7581A's are paid for - deal done

Once they arrive I think I will bias accordingly, then one of John's NOS Mullard ecc83's in the phase-inverter slot - should be primed and ready to do some recording. 

Many thanks once again, for both the advice and the easy transaction. Felt much nicer doing business on here than would have done on eBay!

Ossyrocks

ryanverbena said:

Thanks both John for the advice and Rob for the offer - 7581A's are paid for - deal done

Once they arrive I think I will bias accordingly, then one of John's NOS Mullard ecc83's in the phase-inverter slot - should be primed and ready to do some recording. 

Many thanks once again, for both the advice and the easy transaction. Felt much nicer doing business on here than would have done on eBay!

No problem. I also agree about doing deals here.

Also, if you’re not happy, everyone gets to know, so I will take them back if that’s the case, but I’m confident you’ll be happy.

Re preamps, I also have a tasty selection of those too, if you ever need to experiment with those. I am familiar with Dumble style circuits having compiled the original Dumble Archive and hosted it for more than a decade and played a few originals in my time. A telefunken in V1 and V2 is quite a revelation, however that’s a conversation for another day.

Rob

ryanverbena

That sounds interesting! Not sure I'll need it for V2 however, as per the manual it says:

V1 - 12AX7 - Input and Gain V2 - 12AX7 - Reverb Send & Return V3 - 12AT7 - Reverb Drive V4 - 12AX7 - Effects buffer & Mixing Stage V5 - 12AX7 - Phase Inverter V6-V7 - 6L6

I don't know much about vacuum tubes (their golden era was decades before my time), but looking at the layout I was under the impression that only V1 and V6 would be the only tubes that affect the dry tone of the amp. 

If you have a specific tele that you'd recommend then do PM me and we could possibly organise it to package up with the 7581A's?

PeteC

Ossyrocks said:

ryanverbena said:

Thanks both John for the advice and Rob for the offer - 7581A's are paid for - deal done

Once they arrive I think I will bias accordingly, then one of John's NOS Mullard ecc83's in the phase-inverter slot - should be primed and ready to do some recording. 

Many thanks once again, for both the advice and the easy transaction. Felt much nicer doing business on here than would have done on eBay!

No problem. I also agree about doing deals here.

Also, if you’re not happy, everyone gets to know, so I will take them back if that’s the case, but I’m confident you’ll be happy.

Re preamps, I also have a tasty selection of those too, if you ever need to experiment with those. I am familiar with Dumble style circuits having compiled the original Dumble Archive and hosted it for more than a decade and played a few originals in my time. A telefunken in V1 and V2 is quite a revelation, however that’s a conversation for another day.

Rob

Ah , that Rob!   Good to put a moniker to the forum name.  I came across your archive many years ago when building my own ODS and there wasn’t much info on the web.  I corresponded direct with Scott Lerner for a couple of years when he was doing the Glaswerks stuff and before everyone got a bit carried away on the Ampgarage Forum.   Keen to talk dumble style  circuits any time.  I’m in Leeds - are you still in Manchester ? 

Sorry to go a bit off topic OP ! 

Ossyrocks

ryanverbena said:

That sounds interesting! Not sure I'll need it for V2 however, as per the manual it says:

V1 - 12AX7 - Input and Gain V2 - 12AX7 - Reverb Send & Return V3 - 12AT7 - Reverb Drive V4 - 12AX7 - Effects buffer & Mixing Stage V5 - 12AX7 - Phase Inverter V6-V7 - 6L6

I don't know much about vacuum tubes (their golden era was decades before my time), but looking at the layout I was under the impression that only V1 and V6 would be the only tubes that affect the dry tone of the amp. 

If you have a specific tele that you'd recommend then do PM me and we could possibly organise it to package up with the 7581A's?

Your amp is very different to a Dumble then, I’m not familiar with Two Rocks except a very early Sapphire 100 I had the pleasure of looking into. Let’s just say their build quality has come a long way since then.

I’ll PM you.

Rob

Ossyrocks

PeteC said:

Ossyrocks said:

ryanverbena said:

Thanks both John for the advice and Rob for the offer - 7581A's are paid for - deal done

Once they arrive I think I will bias accordingly, then one of John's NOS Mullard ecc83's in the phase-inverter slot - should be primed and ready to do some recording. 

Many thanks once again, for both the advice and the easy transaction. Felt much nicer doing business on here than would have done on eBay!

No problem. I also agree about doing deals here.

Also, if you’re not happy, everyone gets to know, so I will take them back if that’s the case, but I’m confident you’ll be happy.

Re preamps, I also have a tasty selection of those too, if you ever need to experiment with those. I am familiar with Dumble style circuits having compiled the original Dumble Archive and hosted it for more than a decade and played a few originals in my time. A telefunken in V1 and V2 is quite a revelation, however that’s a conversation for another day.

Rob

Ah , that Rob!   Good to put a moniker to the forum name.  I came across your archive many years ago when building my own ODS and there wasn’t much info on the web.  I corresponded direct with Scott Lerner for a couple of years when he was doing the Glaswerks stuff and before everyone got a bit carried away on the Ampgarage Forum.   Keen to talk dumble style  circuits any time.  I’m in Leeds - are you still in Manchester ? 

Sorry to go a bit off topic OP ! 

That’s me. Not in Manchester anymore, I live on Morecambe Bay these days. It’s been a very long time since I was involved in the Dumble stuff. I set up the archive in the mid 90’s.

Rob