Is this the most cynical move you've ever seen on the part of a guitar manufacturer ?

sidthekidlives

So , blessed EVH is hardly cold in the ground and Peavey announce this below . He wanted his name taken off the guitars because allegedly he wasn't happy with the quality control. Now , I'm not normally sensitive to such matters but this to me is the most cynical thing I've seen a manufacturer do : doesn't sit very well with me if I'm honest. 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/peavey-is-making-the-hp-2-guitar-again-following-eddie-van-halens-death

crunchman

It's bad but it's not the worst:

https://reverb.com/news/remember-when-gibson-tried-to-market-a-hendrix-signature-strat

EricTheWeary

crunchman said:

It's bad but it's not the worst:

https://reverb.com/news/remember-when-gibson-tried-to-market-a-hendrix-signature-strat

At least Gibson waited awhile. 

sidthekidlives

EricTheWeary said:

crunchman said:

It's bad but it's not the worst:

https://reverb.com/news/remember-when-gibson-tried-to-market-a-hendrix-signature-strat

At least Gibson waited awhile. 

And then thought better of it ! 

March

I'm trying to decide whether the PRS PS Signature Ltd Sinker Mahogany debacle was cynical or fraudulent. I was present at one of the roadshow events when PRSh was asked by a member of the audience what it was and went on to provide a detailed explanation of sinker wood, demonstrating that he understood what it was.

David Grissom even appeared in a video for Wildwood reciting almost word for word Paul's explanation as provided at the roadshow event, saying that it was Paul's explanation as provided to him by Paul over the phone, only to discover that the neck blanks were not sinker wood at all and that Paul was apprently totally unaware as to 'sinker wood' was - he even uploaded a video to You Tube providing his 'revised' understanding, looking very shifty. I could picture the suits off camera. All this despite the term having been used in the industry for years for sunken wood that had been sourced from rivers and lakes after years of resting on the bed.

Philly_Q

sidthekidlives said:

So , blessed EVH is hardly cold in the ground and Peavey announce this below . He wanted his name taken off the guitars because allegedly he wasn't happy with the quality control.

I may be remembering this incorrectly - in which case apologies to the late Mr VH - but I think he said the same thing when moving from Music Man to Peavey.  Coupled with them not being able to manufacture in sufficient quantity, perhaps?

The one thing I've never heard EB/MM criticised for is quality control.  Call me cynical, but I always suspected Ed was getting a better financial deal from Peavey - and in turn, Fender/EVH.

Fender/EVH effectively made money from Peavey's design, Peavey in turn made money from elements of EB/MM's design.  Unless we believe that all the manufacturers did was make things to Ed's exact specification.

Obviously Peavey are taking the opportunity to make some money but to me it seems more like sound business sense than anything else.

Pabcrane

I'm pretty sure that Music Man still make the Axis even though Eddie left them in the 90's. And didn't the article which was linked in the OP say that Peavey re-launched the HP in 2017?

I'm pretty sure that there's been some cynical money grabs going on since he died. I just don't know if this is the worst. Giving Peavey  the benefit of the doubt, maybe they waited until he died before trying to compete with the EVH brand? Although that's probably a pretty long bow to draw...

Though I must say that I'm not super informed about the whole thing.

March

Philly_Q said:

sidthekidlives said:

So , blessed EVH is hardly cold in the ground and Peavey announce this below . He wanted his name taken off the guitars because allegedly he wasn't happy with the quality control.

I may be remembering this incorrectly - in which case apologies to the late Mr VH - but I think he said the same thing when moving from Music Man to Peavey.  Coupled with them not being able to manufacture in sufficient quantity, perhaps?

The one thing I've never heard EB/MM criticised for is quality control.  Call me cynical, but I always suspected Ed was getting a better financial deal from Peavey - and in turn, Fender/EVH.

Fender/EVH effectively made money from Peavey's design, Peavey in turn made money from elements of EB/MM's design.  Unless we believe that all the manufacturers did was make things to Ed's exact specification.

Obviously Peavey are taking the opportunity to make some money but to me it seems more like sound business sense than anything else.

I do not recall anything about EBMM QA issues (something you are rightly cynical of in your response), but I remember Ed saying in an interview with a magazine that the build times were a factor, with people having to wait months for orders. I'm just thinking, with the way that the boutique small builder market has grown in the last thirty years whether what was considered a long wait then, is considered reasonably quick these days? Granted though, EBMM, even then, were not a small builder.

sidthekidlives

March said:

Philly_Q said:

sidthekidlives said:

So , blessed EVH is hardly cold in the ground and Peavey announce this below . He wanted his name taken off the guitars because allegedly he wasn't happy with the quality control.

I may be remembering this incorrectly - in which case apologies to the late Mr VH - but I think he said the same thing when moving from Music Man to Peavey.  Coupled with them not being able to manufacture in sufficient quantity, perhaps?

The one thing I've never heard EB/MM criticised for is quality control.  Call me cynical, but I always suspected Ed was getting a better financial deal from Peavey - and in turn, Fender/EVH.

Fender/EVH effectively made money from Peavey's design, Peavey in turn made money from elements of EB/MM's design.  Unless we believe that all the manufacturers did was make things to Ed's exact specification.

Obviously Peavey are taking the opportunity to make some money but to me it seems more like sound business sense than anything else.

I do not recall anything about EBMM QA issues (something you are rightly cynical of in your response), but I remember Ed saying in an interview with a magazine that the build times were a factor, with people having to wait months for orders. I'm just thinking, with the way that the boutique small builder market has grown in the last thirty years whether what was considered a long wait then, is considered reasonably quick these days? Granted though, EBMM, even then, were not a small builder.

Just to muddy the waters even further - see below from a Nov. 1995 issue of Guitar World 

GW: When did you make the decision to move from Music Man to Peavey?

VH: When I started realizing what the drawbacks of working with a small company are, such as problems with product availability. Before I left Music Man, I had my management call 15 dealers from Ohio to Hawaii to find out how long the waiting period was to get one of my guitars. The shortest time quoted was 10 months, but most dealers said it could take anywhere from a year to a year and a half. Everywhere I went, kids were telling me, "I can't get your guitar!" Some kid is not going to shell out the $1,800 that guitar costs then wait 18 months to get it! That's the reason I left. I'm not in the business of making guitars--that's not my livelihiood. I make music for a living. I didn't go with Music Man for the money, and I didn't change companies for the money either--contrary to popular belief. People think I got a big lump of money from Peavey or something, but that had nothing to do with the switch. I went with Music Man in the first place because of their ability to produce a quality instrument. Also, my experience with my 5150 amps had proven Peavey's commitment to extremely strict quality control. So the most logical home for me to go to was Peavey, especially after we got the combo unit finished.

guitars4you

March said:

I'm trying to decide whether the PRS PS Signature Ltd Sinker Mahogany debacle was cynical or fraudulent. I was present at one of the roadshow events when PRSh was asked by a member of the audience what it was and went on to provide a detailed explanation of sinker wood, demonstrating that he understood what it was.

David Grissom even appeared in a video for Wildwood reciting almost word for word Paul's explanation as provided at the roadshow event, saying that it was Paul's explanation as provided to him by Paul over the phone, only to discover that the neck blanks were not sinker wood at all and that Paul was apparently totally unaware as to 'sinker wood' was - he even uploaded a video to You Tube providing his 'revised' understanding, looking very shifty. I could picture the suits off camera. All this despite the term having been used in the industry for years for sunken wood that had been sourced from rivers and lakes after years of resting on the bed.

@Twinfan will enjoy this comment - I fully recall the discussion and 'confusion' at the time

tekbow

Not a story. Peavey Announced via a guitar world interview in July that they were bringing the HP2 back with European Luthiers after the 2019/19 US run.

The First l HP2's arrived in stock and sold out on the 12th October.

So unless they had a time machine in July or got guitars to market in a week flat, they're not guilty of this.

Peavey are guilty of many things, but not this particular thing.

tekbow

On the QC issues, something that may have a grain of salt to it is QC related.

Both EBMM And Peavey experienced this issue, volume.

EVH Said from early on that he wanted guitars and amps he'd spec'd in shops all over the world so that he could, in theory access consistent equipment anywhere.

If you look at the quality of the quilt top EBMM's and Peavey, A good few of them are dreadful. Could barely call them quilts. I suspect EBMM couldnt get quality wood in the quantity required, and couldnt put out that volume anyway. He also allegedly did the dirty with Sterlings wife.

Peavey Could, I suspect they offered more money too, but gave up on quilt tops after the first year.

Then he started have alcohol issues, turned up to a NAMM Bladdered.

Eventually fender likely offered him more money again (once he'd sorted himself out a bit)

Philly_Q

tekbow said:

He also allegedly did the dirty with Sterlings wife.

Yikes!

thegummy

Not manufacturers but a month ago I would have thought about 2 or 3 of my Facebook friends were in to Van Halen.

Now I know that 90% of them loved him!

drofluf

tekbow said:

Not a story. Peavey Announced via a guitar world interview in July that they were bringing the HP2 back with European Luthiers after the 2019/19 US run.

The First l HP2's arrived in stock and sold out on the 12th October.

So unless they had a time machine in July or got guitars to market in a week flat, they're not guilty of this.

Peavey are guilty of many things, but not this particular thing.

Thanks.  It did seem rather a short timeframe to launch a new product or at least relaunch an old model. Unfortunate timing with the benefit of hindsight. 

soma1975

crunchman said:

It's bad but it's not the worst:

https://reverb.com/news/remember-when-gibson-tried-to-market-a-hendrix-signature-strat

It's bad but it's not the worst Jimi thing. 

Bloke dies from booze and pills. Step sister sells this.

tekbow

drofluf said:

tekbow said:

Not a story. Peavey Announced via a guitar world interview in July that they were bringing the HP2 back with European Luthiers after the 2019/19 US run.

The First l HP2's arrived in stock and sold out on the 12th October.

So unless they had a time machine in July or got guitars to market in a week flat, they're not guilty of this.

Peavey are guilty of many things, but not this particular thing.

Thanks.  It did seem rather a short timeframe to launch a new product or at least relaunch an old model. Unfortunate timing with the benefit of hindsight. 

No argument there, the timing was extremely unfortunate.

Funkfingers

Somebody already mentioned dealers.

If dealers get customer requests for a particular model, they contact the distributors to place orders. These are relayed to the manufacturer.

If, on the other hand, nobody has requested the HP2, Peavey is simply cashing in.

Rocker

The OP is right in deeming this guitar release to be a cynical marketing exercise.  However the OP or anyone else, for that matter, does not have to buy the guitar.

fretmeister

Rocker said:

The OP is right in deeming this guitar release to be a cynical marketing exercise.  However the OP or anyone else, for that matter, does not have to buy the guitar.

Read the rest of the thread then.

They were announced and even on sale before EVH death.

hollywoodrox

Pabcrane said:

I'm pretty sure that Music Man still make the Axis even though Eddie left them in the 90's. And didn't the article which was linked in the OP say that Peavey re-launched the HP in 2017?

I'm pretty sure that there's been some cynical money grabs going on since he died. I just don't know if this is the worst. Giving Peavey  the benefit of the doubt, maybe they waited until he died before trying to compete with the EVH brand? Although that's probably a pretty long bow to draw...

Though I must say that I'm not super informed about the whole thing.

A few years ago I bought a musicman subax in red purely as it looked similar to the one Eddie had on a 91 cover of guitarist that I’d always admired