Stripped neck screw hole on Fender Stratocaster

guitarman1984

Hi there,
I have recently acquired an Hot Rod 62 Strat, during my usual full inspection and setup I discovered a stripped screw hole in the neck - PITA. I decided to give it my own treatment I have done already twice so far with definitive results, what do you think?
How.do you solve that issue?
I was shooting a video for the full check so I kept the repair part as well, here it is.

ICBM

How I do it - fill the hole with Titebond, then pack in as many pieces of toothpick as will physically fit - tap them in with a small hammer - break them off and clean up. Then refit the neck straight away with the glue still wet - no drilling, just drive the screw straight in. This allows the fibres of the toothpicks to crush around the remains of the old damaged thread - it's never a smooth hole - and the compression of the screw will produce a very tight clamping force, so that when the glue sets you've created a very strong bond.

I once tested this and a couple of more 'proper' methods to destruction using a ratchet handle to tighten the screws, and this one was the strongest - so strong that the screw head snapped off before the hole stripped again. The only method I know of which is equally good is to fit a side-cut maple plug, but that's much more work and only really necessary if someone has already tried to do it by drilling and dowelling (the weakest method).

Sparks

What’s the difference between a plug and drill-and-dowel? Just curious. 

Might be a good time to experiment with fitting machine screws and a threaded insert. Which I’ve never done. 

guitarman1984

ICBM said:

How I do it - fill the hole with Titebond, then pack in as many pieces of toothpick as will physically fit - tap them in with a small hammer - break them off and clean up. Then refit the neck straight away with the glue still wet - no drilling, just drive the screw straight in. This allows the fibres of the toothpicks to crush around the remains of the old damaged thread - it's never a smooth hole - and the compression of the screw will produce a very tight clamping force, so that when the glue sets you've created a very strong bond.

I once tested this and a couple of more 'proper' methods to destruction using a ratchet handle to tighten the screws, and this one was the strongest - so strong that the screw head snapped off before the hole stripped again. The only method I know of which is equally good is to fit a side-cut maple plug, but that's much more work and only really necessary if someone has already tried to do it by drilling and dowelling (the weakest method).

It's not shown in the video but I have actually fit 4 half toothpicks in the stripped hole, I started with two but the screw was not firm enough for my likings, therefore added other 2 in the direction.

ICBM

Sparks said:

What’s the difference between a plug and drill-and-dowel? Just curious.

A plug has the grain in the same direction as the neck - so the screw goes into side grain, and is strong. Also, you can use maple.

A dowel has the grain along its length, so the screw goes into end grain, and is weak. They're also usually not maple, but something softer (although obviously you could make maple ones).

It's frustrating that the conventional advice is to drill and dowel, as it's definitely the weakest - especially if you then drill the dowel for the screw as well.

Sparks said:

Might be a good time to experiment with fitting machine screws and a threaded insert.

I don't see the point unless you're wanting to regularly dismantle the guitar - a deep-thread screw into fresh maple is as strong.

guitarman1984

I don't really know but the toothpicks trick has done it for me so far. It maybe also depends on how much damaged/stripped the original hole is, because I believe the toothpicks wood needs to be forced against the remaining treads of the existing hole if you want it to stick firmly to the maple. What do you think?

viz

ICBM said:

How I do it - fill the hole with Titebond, then pack in as many pieces of toothpick as will physically fit - tap them in with a small hammer - break them off and clean up. Then refit the neck straight away with the glue still wet - no drilling, just drive the screw straight in. This allows the fibres of the toothpicks to crush around the remains of the old damaged thread - it's never a smooth hole - and the compression of the screw will produce a very tight clamping force, so that when the glue sets you've created a very strong bond.

I once tested this and a couple of more 'proper' methods to destruction using a ratchet handle to tighten the screws, and this one was the strongest - so strong that the screw head snapped off before the hole stripped again. The only method I know of which is equally good is to fit a side-cut maple plug, but that's much more work and only really necessary if someone has already tried to do it by drilling and dowelling (the weakest method).

I do exactly this on so many applications (guitar necks, drawer knobs, door hooks, etc etc) and I’ve never had a problem. Sometimes when I’ve screwed the screw in, I then unscrew it and lightly hammer in a couple more cocktail sticks. 

Rich210

viz said:

ICBM said:

How I do it - fill the hole with Titebond, then pack in as many pieces of toothpick as will physically fit - tap them in with a small hammer - break them off and clean up. Then refit the neck straight away with the glue still wet - no drilling, just drive the screw straight in. This allows the fibres of the toothpicks to crush around the remains of the old damaged thread - it's never a smooth hole - and the compression of the screw will produce a very tight clamping force, so that when the glue sets you've created a very strong bond.

I once tested this and a couple of more 'proper' methods to destruction using a ratchet handle to tighten the screws, and this one was the strongest - so strong that the screw head snapped off before the hole stripped again. The only method I know of which is equally good is to fit a side-cut maple plug, but that's much more work and only really necessary if someone has already tried to do it by drilling and dowelling (the weakest method).

I do exactly this on so many applications (guitar necks, drawer knobs, door hooks, etc etc) and I’ve never had a problem. Sometimes when I’ve screwed the screw in, I then unscrew it and lightly hammer in a couple more cocktail sticks. 

Was just gonna say exactly the same thing - It's how I hang doors and re-screw and repair any fixing around the house, although for just minor stuff I skip the glue and just go for tooth picks/matches. The added glue would be super strong and integral. Makes perfect sense! 

Edit: I'd imagine you could use any wood/pva glue for this? 

WezV

It does depend how bad the holes are.   If its just worn a bit the toothpicks work fine.

If its really bad, or there are multiple holes then it needs plugging properly.


Dowels are wrong.  Some may have used them and got away with it but it is the weakest way to repair this so will likely need redoing again at some point

ICBM

guitarman1984 said:

I don't really know but the toothpicks trick has done it for me so far. It maybe also depends on how much damaged/stripped the original hole is, because I believe the toothpicks wood needs to be forced against the remaining treads of the existing hole if you want it to stick firmly to the maple. What do you think?

Yes, exactly - that's why you shouldn't drill out the hole 'cleanly', *unless* you're fitting a proper side-cut plug.

All the stripped holes I've ever come across which have not been previously drilled and dowelled, always have the remains of the old thread. The screw will 'jump' it well before it gets to the point of smoothly scraping the sides.

WezV said:

Dowels are wrong.  Some may have used them and got away with it but it is the weakest way to repair this so will likely need redoing again at some point

This.

The methods I tested, on a scrap Squier neck, were - 'wet glue' toothpicks method (as above); 'dry glue' toothpicks method (ie allow it to set before putting the screw in); and drill, dowel and re-drill (the received-wisdom 'correct' way according to many sources). I first deliberately stripped three of the holes by drilling out a tiny bit larger then purposely overtightening the screws, then did the three types of repair. Then once all were set, tried to re-strip them and the fourth screw using the ratchet handle driver.

The weakest by far was the dowel, followed by the 'dry glue' method (not much better), followed by the original undamaged hole - the strongest, enough that the screw head snapped off before it stripped, was the wet-glue method.

OK that's only one test and it might vary a bit with a proper repeated run of them, but the differences were pretty obvious, so I've done it by the wet-glue method ever since. It also has the benefit of being by far the easiest and quickest, but that's not why I do it.

LastMantra

Slightly ot but I bought a bunch of ss screws that are slightly larger than the normal pic guard size because I was fed up of them not tightening. 

guitarman1984

ICBM said:

guitarman1984 said:

I don't really know but the toothpicks trick has done it for me so far. It maybe also depends on how much damaged/stripped the original hole is, because I believe the toothpicks wood needs to be forced against the remaining treads of the existing hole if you want it to stick firmly to the maple. What do you think?

Yes, exactly - that's why you shouldn't drill out the hole 'cleanly', *unless* you're fitting a proper side-cut plug.

All the stripped holes I've ever come across which have not been previously drilled and dowelled, always have the remains of the old thread. The screw will 'jump' it well before it gets to the point of smoothly scraping the sides.

WezV said:

Dowels are wrong.  Some may have used them and got away with it but it is the weakest way to repair this so will likely need redoing again at some point

This.

The methods I tested, on a scrap Squier neck, were - 'wet glue' toothpicks method (as above); 'dry glue' toothpicks method (ie allow it to set before putting the screw in); and drill, dowel and re-drill (the received-wisdom 'correct' way according to many sources). I first deliberately stripped three of the holes by drilling out a tiny bit larger then purposely overtightening the screws, then did the three types of repair. Then once all were set, tried to re-strip them and the fourth screw using the ratchet handle driver.

The weakest by far was the dowel, followed by the 'dry glue' method (not much better), followed by the original undamaged hole - the strongest, enough that the screw head snapped off before it stripped, was the wet-glue method.

OK that's only one test and it might vary a bit with a proper repeated run of them, but the differences were pretty obvious, so I've done it by the wet-glue method ever since. It also has the benefit of being by far the easiest and quickest, but that's not why I do it.

Question about the wet glue method that you prefer, if I understand correctly you screw in the screw with still wet glue. What about when you have to disassembly the neck, don't you have troubles to remove the "glued in" screw?

ICBM

guitarman1984 said:

Question about the wet glue method that you prefer, if I understand correctly you screw in the screw with still wet glue. What about when you have to disassembly the neck, don't you have troubles to remove the "glued in" screw?

No, because wood glue doesn’t bond to metal.

guitarman1984

ICBM said:

guitarman1984 said:

Question about the wet glue method that you prefer, if I understand correctly you screw in the screw with still wet glue. What about when you have to disassembly the neck, don't you have troubles to remove the "glued in" screw?

No, because wood glue doesn’t bond to metal.

Thanks. Let's see, I hope I will be not in need to fix again the darn screw! So far so good.
However I don't like to overtight those neck screws with excessive torque, I rather make sure they are not biting into the wood in the body, which is preventing them to tight the neck firmly to the body. 

LastMantra

Yeah but how does it effect the tone?

ICBM

LastMantra said:

Yeah but how does it effect the tone?

You need to make sure you only use tonewood toothpicks.

guitarman1984

ICBM said:

LastMantra said:

Yeah but how does it effect the tone?

You need to make sure you only use tonewood toothpicks.

Sure, I handpicked the best sounding toothpicks out or one hundred or so, by listening their tone when hitting a piece of mid 60 alder piece of wood. Out of these I have chosen the ones quartersawn cut. Lucky me the few selected were enough to do the job!!!

Flip

I'm considering as a lockdown project building a kit guitar with a bolt on neck. May I ask what the perceived wisdom is between screws and tapped steel bushes and bolts?

ICBM

Flip said:

I'm considering as a lockdown project building a kit guitar with a bolt on neck. May I ask what the perceived wisdom is between screws and tapped steel bushes and bolts?

My opinion is that if the neck is plain maple then screws are fine. Fender have been using them for 70 years with no issues.

The only reasons to use metal inserts are if the wood is too soft to take screws properly - mahogany can be, and roasted maple possibly could be - or if you want to regularly take the neck off for transport.

jaymenon

As an aside - for enlarged pickguard screw holes (non stress bearing of course).

Wrap a strip of paper around a toothpick - insert into the hole, and then remove the toothpick, leaving the paper 'tube' in the hole.

Apply wood glue (or any adhesive). Wait till dry...

The hole is nice and smaller.

ICBM

For pickguard screw holes I use the same wet-glue method but with a matchstick or similar soft wood.