JB/59 set: less bright alternatives?

Bidley

I have an ESP Horizon. I love it but it's a fairly bright guitar. It has Duncans JB in the bridge and 59 in the neck. Normally I like these but in the Horizon they're just a little too bright and brash - the 59 especially.

Which high-output alternatives would you recommend? I love the old Timezone/Air Norton pairing but I have that in 2 other guitars already.

Funkfingers

Depends on the bridge.

If it is a Floyd Rose, change to a brass sustain block.

If you have Tune-o-Matic and through-body stringing, change the bar magnet in each humbucker. ‘59 to Alnico 4. JB/TB to Alnico 2.

andy1839

I have a set of EMG 81/89 running 18v in a bright Les Paul and they've taken a lot of the top end out of the guitar.

Edit: Also what Funkfingers said about the magnet swap.

Paul_C

Change to 250k pots ?

Yamaha77

Magnet swap to alnico 2

Bidley

I'm not really comfortable opening up the pickups to be honest. And the trem has a brass block already. 250k I'd considered but seems more of a ballache!

ICBM

Use a 50’ cable .

Or put a 1nF (AKA .001uF or 1000pF) cap across the volume pot from hot to ground.

This is roughly what the PRS ‘sweet switch’ on the original models did, although a bit more complex since it was a capacitive/inductive network if I remember rightly, but the purpose was to simulate a specific long cable.

Yamaha77

Bidley said:

I'm not really comfortable opening up the pickups to be honest. And the trem has a brass block already. 250k I'd considered but seems more of a ballache!

JB always favours 250k to my ears, literally a 2 minute job to swap a pot and might solve most of what you want rather than new pickups.

Bidley

Yamaha77 said:

Bidley said:

I'm not really comfortable opening up the pickups to be honest. And the trem has a brass block already. 250k I'd considered but seems more of a ballache!

JB always favours 250k to my ears, literally a 2 minute job to swap a pot and might solve most of what you want rather than new pickups.

I've never ever soldered a pot in under 30 minutes, probably not even that. Every time i have done so it's been a harrowing experience. I'm just shit at soldering.

Philly_Q

Yamaha77 said:

Bidley said:

I'm not really comfortable opening up the pickups to be honest. And the trem has a brass block already. 250k I'd considered but seems more of a ballache!

JB always favours 250k to my ears, literally a 2 minute job to swap a pot and might solve most of what you want rather than new pickups.

I have read in various places that it was designed to work best with 250k - although that may be a myth.  And I think the SD website (or pre-website literature) said Seymour Duncan himself prefers 250k pots in general.

Funkfingers

ICBM said:

This is roughly what the PRS ‘sweet switch’ on the original models did, although a bit more complex since it was a capacitive/inductive network if I remember rightly, but the purpose was to simulate a specific long cable.

The sweet switch also had a BBD chip on it to introduce a very slight timing delay. 

Bidley

Philly_Q said:

Yamaha77 said:

Bidley said:

I'm not really comfortable opening up the pickups to be honest. And the trem has a brass block already. 250k I'd considered but seems more of a ballache!

JB always favours 250k to my ears, literally a 2 minute job to swap a pot and might solve most of what you want rather than new pickups.

I have read in various places that it was designed to work best with 250k - although that may be a myth.  And I think the SD website (or pre-website literature) said Seymour Duncan himself prefers 250k pots in general.

In fairness I've got a JB in a Strat with 250k pots, and it does sound good. But it's not just the JB that is the problem, the 59 is like an ice pick to the eardrum. Which makes me think that trying to make pickups that are bright to begin with work in a bright guitar is a bit of a waste of time.

Dominic

I have a 335 with very bright WIZZ PAFs ......they have fantastic clarity especially good when playing dirty but they are terribly bold  when playing clean .......would the 250k pot swap work for me ?

Winny_Pooh

Dominic said:

I have a 335 with very bright WIZZ PAFs ......they have fantastic clarity especially good when playing dirty but they are terribly bold  when playing clean .......would the 250k pot swap work for me ?

Use your tone pots (or change the tone pot cap value) so you keep the best of both options.

ICBM

To be honest, I don't think the '59 is a particularly bright pickup - it's clear and bold, but I can think of a lot of brighter neck pickups - and even the JB is more middy than bright, so I don't think a pickup swap is the answer... unless you deliberately go for something muddy, like cheap overwound ceramic-magnet pickups of the sort you often find in far-east 'metal' guitars.

The problem is likely to be the inherent tone of the guitar. 250K pots would probably help - and I wasn't joking about fitting a small-value cap to the overall output, that's likely to be the simplest and most effective. Some Reverend guitars are fitted with one, in fact - maybe they found them too bright without it.

Yamaha77

I've always found that 59 in a neck position is typically honky in the mids, cutting treble but the bass always seems overblown. I actually like to wire a JB to a 250k push pull pot as it's great in single coil mode if I need something cleaner. I also like alnico II magnets in the JB as well. 

If you really want to change pickups and you love the Dimarzio pairing then try that. They are but microphones after all albeit voiced differently.

Hope it helps

Bidley

Thanks dudes, that makes a lot of sense.

Maybe I should try the easiest fix of all and lower the pickups and see if that takes the edge off (it just occurred to me).

Dominic

Winny_Pooh said:

Dominic said:

I have a 335 with very bright WIZZ PAFs ......they have fantastic clarity especially good when playing dirty but they are terribly bold  when playing clean .......would the 250k pot swap work for me ?

Use your tone pots (or change the tone pot cap value) so you keep the best of both options.

Tried that............still too bright on the bridge !Bidley said:

Thanks dudes, that makes a lot of sense.

Maybe I should try the easiest fix of all and lower the pickups and see if that takes the edge off (it just occurred to me).

I did that but it made Fuck all difference

Moloch

Bidley said:

Yamaha77 said:

Bidley said:

I'm not really comfortable opening up the pickups to be honest. And the trem has a brass block already. 250k I'd considered but seems more of a ballache!

JB always favours 250k to my ears, literally a 2 minute job to swap a pot and might solve most of what you want rather than new pickups.

I've never ever soldered a pot in under 30 minutes, probably not even that. Every time i have done so it's been a harrowing experience. I'm just shit at soldering.

In my experience that's usually down to a shit iron rather than a lack of skill. I bought an adjustable temperature soldering station off Amazon for about £25 a few months ago. It saw use for the first time last month, taking a pair of Duncan Slash pickups out of a Vintage AFD and replacing them with original spec Wilkinsons. Much, much easier than my old, and even cheaper, iron.

LastMantra

Bidley said:

Thanks dudes, that makes a lot of sense.

Maybe I should try the easiest fix of all and lower the pickups and see if that takes the edge off (it just occurred to me).

Pickup height is a pretty fundamental part of setting up your guitar. You may want to adjust the individual polepieces too.

grungebob

Winny_Pooh said:

Use your tone pots (or change the tone pot cap value) so you keep the best of both options.

This. Just turn down your tone pot. 

In my Combinata the tones always around 1/2 for cleans and 3/4 for gain but I do ride it a lot more so than switching between  pickups.