PRS "rotary to toggle" mod - reversible?

PonchoGreg

ICBM said:

The resistors do make a noticeable difference to how good the split sounds are, so well worth considering.

Yeah, would definitely use resistors if using lower-output pickups (probably in series with the split wires, before connecting to the push-pull, for ease of wiring).

But to be honest I'm pleasantly surprised by the split sound of the Dragon IIs as is, they still sound pretty full and the output isn't drastically reduced. Probably helps that they're a bit hotter to start with.

ICBM

PonchoGreg said:

But to be honest I'm pleasantly surprised by the split sound of the Dragon IIs as is, they still sound pretty full and the output isn't drastically reduced. Probably helps that they're a bit hotter to start with.

Yes - I A/B'd mine with the resistors and without, and there was much less difference than with the McCarty pickups (stock in the SAS). Still some, and I do slightly prefer them with the resistors, but they're fine without.

Considering the reputation they have - loads of people replaced them in PRSs in the 90s/early 2000, including me - I'm actually very impressed with them, they're a lot fuller-sounding than the McCartys but without that over-the-top compressed midrange that the Dragon Is and HFS have.

PonchoGreg

Ha ha I had exactly the same reaction - as in I think they sound very good, the neck in particular. Definitely on the warm/thick side, but not overly boomy or compressed.

ICBM

I think PRS really missed a trick not putting them in the Swamp Ash Special as stock - to me, they're far better in the inherently brighter guitar than the McCartys were, which weren't obviously bad but just seemed a little bland... but with the Dragon IIs in now, it's clear that they were lacking bottom end.

The McCartys sound much better in my Hollowbody though.

PonchoGreg

ICBM said:

No, you've got it right - it doesn't matter which way round they're connected, and there is no disconnection. That's the second reason it's better to do it this way, as well as reducing noise - the full humbucker remains connected at all times, you just switch the split. The third reason is that it reduces switching noise because the signal path isn't briefly interrupted. Why PRS do it the wrong way I don't know...

Actually there's one thing that still eludes me in that setup. Where does the neck pickup hot (the white wire) go?? 

So far I have the two pickup ground wires (black for neck and white for ground) connected to the grounding point on the toggle. Both splits (red) to the top bank of push/pull tabs. Bridge side of push/pull (when up) goes to ground. Neck side of push pull (when up) goes to the neck side of the 3-way toggle. Bridge hot (black) to other side side of the toggle.

So my circuit is pretty much complete for the bridge pickup (shunting the slug wire to ground when push/pull is up). But I'm missing something for the neck: when push pull is up then the split wire becomes hot (which is good as that only leaves the screw coil active), but when it's down it looks to me like the circuit is interrupted because the neck white doesn't go anywhere... My guess would be to the unused tab of the neck side of the push pull, but then we're back to the PRS wiring.

I'd be interested to see how you wired yours up.

ICBM

PonchoGreg said:

Actually there's one thing that still eludes me in that setup. Where does the neck pickup hot (the white wire) go??

To the toggle switch pickup contact, as does the bridge pickup black (to the other one obviously). The other two go to ground.

The pull-switch then connects the neck pickup red wire to the white on the toggle switch (shutting off the inner coil) and the bridge pickup red wire to ground (likewise).

PonchoGreg

Duh - of course. Thank you

axisus

I hated the rotary switch on my old PRS, swapped out almost immediately. Apart from being a rubbish idea, it was difficult to change quickly, you never quite knew where you were, and I HATED the fact that on an expensive guitar they couldn't be bothered to make a knob with 1 to 5 marked on it rather than a very very lazy 1 to 10.

One of the worst ever 'modern' ideas on a guitar. 

PonchoGreg

Gotta say though, there is something aesthetically pleasing about the three similar knobs, no toggle look... But yeah, I think the rotary will be coming out this weekend

PeteC

Been there !!!  You have to try it for yourself though.  

PonchoGreg

ICBM said:

PonchoGreg said:

Actually there's one thing that still eludes me in that setup. Where does the neck pickup hot (the white wire) go??

To the toggle switch pickup contact, as does the bridge pickup black (to the other one obviously). The other two go to ground.

The pull-switch then connects the neck pickup red wire to the white on the toggle switch (shutting off the inner coil) and the bridge pickup red wire to ground (likewise).

Sorry @ICBM meant to ask you: how would you implement partial splits resistors in that setup? That's no problem on the pickup where the split is sent to ground on the push pull (just wire the resistor in series with the split wire in typical DGT fashion). But for the pickup where we're "moving the hot" with the push pull, I'm not quite sure where the resistor would go. If I understand it correctly, putting it series with the split wire (which is the hot in that setup) would actually lower the output of the screw coil when it's isolated, which is not the goal...

ICBM

Don’t ‘move the hot’ (or ground) - it’s the wrong way to do it for several reasons, that’s just one of them. Always bypass the unused coil - lower noise, more reliable, lower switching noise, and you can use a partial split.

PonchoGreg

ICBM said:

Don’t ‘move the hot’ (or ground) - it’s the wrong way to do it for several reasons, that’s just one of them. Always bypass the unused coil - lower noise, more reliable, lower switching noise, and you can use a partial split.

Yeah sorry I used the "move the hot" terminology wrong in that context. As you suggested above, it would be:

- Both splits (red) to the top bank of push/pull tabs
- Bridge side of push/pull (when up) goes to ground via a resistor
- Neck side of push pull (when up) goes to the neck side of the 3-way toggle
- Neck hot (black in that setup) to neck side of toggle as well
- Bridge hot (black) to bridge side of toggle

I'm just trying to figure out where the neck split resistor would go in that setup (if that can be done at all)

ICBM

PonchoGreg said:

I'm just trying to figure out where the neck split resistor would go in that setup (if that can be done at all)

Between the pull-switch and the toggle switch.

That's the reason I reversed the wiring on mine - because the bridge side of the toggle is closer to the pull-switch, so it was easier to connect the resistor there. You can still do it to the far side, but you might want to put a bit of sleeving over the resistor wires if there's not enough room to keep it out of the way of everything else.

PonchoGreg

ICBM said:

PonchoGreg said:

I'm just trying to figure out where the neck split resistor would go in that setup (if that can be done at all)

Between the pull-switch and the toggle switch.

That's the reason I reversed the wiring on mine - because the bridge side of the toggle is closer to the pull-switch, so it was easier to connect the resistor there. You can still do it to the far side, but you might want to put a bit of sleeving over the resistor wires if there's not enough room to keep it out of the way of everything else.

Ah OK thank you - I thought that would just lower the amount of the active (screw) coil coming trough, leading to a lower output when split. Goes to show how much I need to brush up on resistor basics! 

ICBM

PonchoGreg said:

Ah OK thank you - I thought that would just lower the amount of the active (screw) coil coming trough, leading to a lower output when split. Goes to show how much I need to brush up on resistor basics! 

You're just replacing a wire (zero ohms, or close enough) with a resistor, so the coil isn't fully bypassed.