Truss rod access location

jaymenon

Apart from the hassle involved accessing it, are there any advantages to positioning truss rod access at the heel end of a guitar neck?

The fact that you take need to take the neck off is an obvious disadvantage - but are there any advantages please? (Apart from vintage accuracy, which I couldn’t care less about)

I did a search for this on the forum but couldn’t find anything. If I’ve missed something please direct me to the appropriate thread…

ICBM

Yes - it doesn't weaken the neck. Although a headstock-end adjuster with a 'bullet' nut only does very slightly.

In fact, it's perfectly possible to design a heel-end adjuster that doesn't require the neck removing, and the Telecaster is an example - there's an access slot under the pickguard. The problem was that when they changed to the pickguard-mounted electrics for the Strat, they didn't follow through and provide a means of getting to the rod... but it can still be done - my Aria is a good example, there's a routed channel and a notch in the pickguard. You can just about create enough of a recess in the guard even on a Fender.

maltingsaudio

Don’t know why the wheel at the end of a truss Rod ala musicman isn’t industry standard

wrinkleygit

maltingsaudio said:

Don’t know why the wheel at the end of a truss Rod ala musicman isn’t industry standard

Fender used these on the recent “Elite” series and then for some reason haven’t used it since !!!

ICBM

wrinkleygit said:

Fender used these on the recent “Elite” series and then for some reason haven’t used it since !!!

Probably got a nasty letter from EBMM's lawyers...

To be honest I think it's a hideously ugly solution, although it's even worse the way Fender did it with a bit of fingerboard on either side. But it does at least work well.

skunkwerx

Some chapman pro models had it at the heel end as well but I havent seen them do it for a while either.. 

Pabcrane

Yes, it looks better to some people.

On my oldish Jazzmaster there's a wee crescent shaped notch carved out from the scratchplate so as you can fit a flat screwdriver and make quarter terms of th very slightly exposed Philips Head trussrod access, much easier to do I imagine if you loosen the neck screws and tilt it. I've seen this on other vintage Fenders too.

Edit: this is probably the wrong way to to do things. I let my tech do this kind of thing.

p90fool

It stops idiot musicians messing with it. 

Musicwolf

p90fool said:

It stops idiot musicians messing with it. 

This was my thought also.  And by 'mess' we're probably talking about complete turns whilst simultaneously 'adjusting' at least two other things, such as trem claw and saddle heights, and then not being able to get back to the starting position.

ICBM

p90fool said:

It stops idiot musicians messing with it. 

Fender did deliberately ‘hide’ it, yes - but on a Tele you only have to undo five screws to get to it... the pickguard is a giant truss rod cover .

thegummy

ICBM said:

Yes - it doesn't weaken the neck. Although a headstock-end adjuster with a 'bullet' nut only does very slightly.

How does the headstock truss rod access weaken the neck?

Intrigued by this as I've searched for this answer a lot and asked the question before but this is the first time anyone's suggested a downside to the headstock end access.

p90fool

There is an x-ray online somewhere showing how little wood is left around a Gibson truss rod channel, it's pretty scary. 

ICBM

thegummy said:

How does the headstock truss rod access weaken the neck?

Intrigued by this as I've searched for this answer a lot and asked the question before but this is the first time anyone's suggested a downside to the headstock end access.

By removing wood at an already weak point where the neck is thinner and/or especially if angled backwards like a Gibson. It’s a major contributor to how many of them break there.

As p90fool said, if you see it in cross-section it’s very obvious how much wood has been taken out - in some cases the thickness between the bottom of the channel and the back of the neck is almost paper thin. Overall it removes about a third of the neck cross-section, exactly at the point the neck is already weakest due to the shape and the change of grain direction.

Other companies do use smaller cavities, but any removal of wood at all is worse than not doing - even a Fender neck is weakest there, if you look at it from the side it should be obvious why.

thegummy

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

How does the headstock truss rod access weaken the neck?

Intrigued by this as I've searched for this answer a lot and asked the question before but this is the first time anyone's suggested a downside to the headstock end access.

By removing wood at an already weak point where the neck is thinner and/or especially if angled backwards like a Gibson. It’s a major contributor to how many of them break there.

As p90fool said, if you see it in cross-section it’s very obvious how much wood has been taken out - in some cases the thickness between the bottom of the channel and the back of the neck is almost paper thin. Overall it removes about a third of the neck cross-section, exactly at the point the neck is already weakest due to the shape and the change of grain direction.

Other companies do use smaller cavities, but any removal of wood at all is worse than not doing - even a Fender neck is weakest there, if you look at it from the side it should be obvious why.

The proof is in the pudding with Gibsons.

But with Fenders, especially the P bass with the neck being so thick to begin with, is it the case that technically it's weaker but in reality it's redundant?

Or do P Bass necks snap at that point? And if so, do the ones with headstock truss access snap more often?

p90fool

Fenders are less prone to breaking there partly because the adjustment access is only a little bigger than the rod and/or nut diameter, and partly because they're usually made from maple. 

ICBM

thegummy said:

The proof is in the pudding with Gibsons.

But with Fenders, especially the P bass with the neck being so thick to begin with, is it the case that technically it's weaker but in reality it's redundant?

Or do P Bass necks snap at that point? And if so, do the ones with headstock truss access snap more often?

It’s very rare, and in fact breaks along the length of the headstock roughly parallel with the treble side of the neck are much more common, but I’ve seen a couple that have broken through the truss rod channel. Hard to tell whether it’s a significant factor with such a small sample though, I admit - but it must be weaker, even if only marginally.

thegummy

ICBM said:

thegummy said:

The proof is in the pudding with Gibsons.

But with Fenders, especially the P bass with the neck being so thick to begin with, is it the case that technically it's weaker but in reality it's redundant?

Or do P Bass necks snap at that point? And if so, do the ones with headstock truss access snap more often?

It’s very rare, and in fact breaks along the length of the headstock roughly parallel with the treble side of the neck are much more common, but I’ve seen a couple that have broken through the truss rod channel. Hard to tell whether it’s a significant factor with such a small sample though, I admit - but it must be weaker, even if only marginally.

On some level it makes it slightly less annoying for me if there's a legit reason for it - when the only reason I could find was "vintage correctness" that really irked me because it's so stupid.

I think though, given how rare it seems to be a problem at all, I'd definitely prefer the hugely greater convenience of the headstock adjustment. Though, as has been mentioned, the MM wheel is the best of both worlds.

wrinkleygit

My memory is a bit hazy on this, but I think in the early 60’s some Vox branded guitars and possibly Burns had “wheel” trussrod adjusters at the heel end of the neck.

BlueStrat

ICBM said:

wrinkleygit said:

Fender used these on the recent “Elite” series and then for some reason haven’t used it since !!!

Probably got a nasty letter from EBMM's lawyers...

To be honest I think it's a hideously ugly solution, although it's even worse the way Fender did it with a bit of fingerboard on either side. But it does at least work well.

On a Strat I'm one of those weird ones who prefer the wheel at the end of the neck as it makes the headstock look so clean, much prefer the design on my Elite

merlin

How often do you adjust your truss rod? Keeping it at the heel on bolt on necks makes so much more sense. 

LastMantra

I don't mind it either. OK it's not as easy as it being on the headstock but it still only takes a matter of a few minutes to adjust.