Thinking of going Kemper/FRFR...

chrishill901

cheers crunchman - the EV looks like a great option, although a lot pricier than the alto. Ill take a look at thomann.

Im possibly going to take the plunge on the Alto soon - Im just hoping it sounds OK with my POD X3 in the interim while I sell the rest of my gear

chrishill901

update thus far - I have bought an Alto TS112A and tried it out in band practice last week with the POD X3 - not convincing but not sure if its the alto or the POD. It is boomy and bassy as all hell, I had to dial in the Para EQ and just cut the bass completely, and I had to add top end to cut through. My patch probably didnt help at all, I set it at home quite quietly. I had 2 gigs at the weekend but just wasn't confident so I stuck with my guitar amp

To be fair it sounded good to the ear after EQing, but there was no feeling to it. It was uninspiring to play. Im hoping thats the POD and not the response of the speaker. Also, do PA speakers need breaking in too?

I understand that the speaker is best lifted off the ground to help with bassyness but I dont want it high up on a PA stand - can you get a small stand just to lift it a foot off the ground?

I'm in nervous territory now, if I sell everything and the Kemper is the same, and it turns out I need a power amp and cab (which I just can't afford) then Ive wasted a lot of time and money! I have been looking at the Jet City JCA22H as a back up...

PVO_Dave

Hi Chris,

Quite hard to answer really without being there, my best guesses from the above;

The POD's for me just don't react like an amp, some of the tones are OK but you don't get the same kind of response as you will with a Kemper, which I feel plays like a real amp. 

With any modeller / PA setup, you will get a recorded / album style tone, not the live amp 'in the room' sound you will be used to, which you'll either get on with or not

Is there anyone local to you at all that has a Kemper that you could run through the Alto?

In the mean time, create some specific patches with the cabinets turned off, with just the power amp section intact. 

Good luck!

Dave. 

Roland

Unfortunately there's no easy answer to this. We're all looking for different things out of amps depending on our choice of music, playing style and live set up. An emerging picture is that people who record, or play live through the PA, are usually happy with a Kemper (or in my case an Axe FX). Those who gig with a large amp can find it more difficult. I would expect a POD to be reasonable for recording, but challenged for dynamic depth in many live situations, and it's hard to provide that with any power amp or speakers.

FWIW I use a Matrix powered FRFR that I picked up second hand as back line monitor. Our PA uses SRM450s, which are punchy for voice, but a bit "metallic" to my ears for guitar. I EQ the signal that I send to the PA to compensate.

chrishill901

update again.

So I bought a Kemper...

and don't like it. At all. I see its potential, and I think I could use it with a power amp and cabs, but FRFR I just don't like it. It just doesnt feel right at all; I suppose its the FRFR; it feels like an amp mic'd up in another room... theres no balls to it. It doesnt seem to cut through in the same way... i can't quite describe it other than it doesnt feel like a guitar amp. it feels like the best damn POD ive ever played, but not an amp.

Im not going to entertain other PA speakers as I think FRFR is the problem for me. Im going to sell the Alto TS112A and go from there. I think the Alto is superb for what it is worth... the Kemper *sounds* great, but I personally don't gel with playing through an FRFR speaker

PVO_Dave

Said as much above regards to amp feel, although the 'no balls' to it thing I disagree with, depending on which amp profiles I use, it can really kick out, I cut through at band practice no problem with the DXR.

Good luck with the amp / cab thing, some people on the Kemper forum have got great results from that , I enjoyed the amp feel I got when I had  Tech 21 power engine and POD HD, but it coloured the tone too much, so had to remove the cab emulation.

chrishill901

no balls is probably a generalist statement... there was something lacking which to be fair could have been the £250 PA speaker I was using... I would be interested to hear it with something like a DXR!

PVO_Dave

Not going to pretend it's like playing through an amp Chris, it's always going to be more of a recorded amp sound, but for example palm muting with a decent profile really makes the DXR thump

chrishill901

Oh there was plenty of bottom end! I guess there was just something not quite there that I couldn't put my finger on... It sounded superb and on its own to the naked ear it sounded fantastic. My wife said it sounded 10 times better than anything else I have owned... But to me it didn't feel right and didn't sit in the mix where I was familiar. It almost fit too well, I wasn't comfortable with it!

crunchman

Could you go to a PA hire place and hire a high end powered speaker to see whether it's your speaker or not?

David5150

What profiles are you using mate - most the standard oned that came loaded on the unit are pretty naff.

It took me a while to dial my Kemper in - I started with the - ohh this sounds good on its own - which progressed into the this sounds cack with the band. Using a FRFR-type setup is wierd at first - what sounds great at honme sounds cack with a band.

The way I got around it was to set my profiles - largley made from my own amps and a couple from the amp factory (JCM 800 and Bognor Goldfinger) - at gig volume and use the master output EQ to carve out a place in the frequency spectrum. In practice this pretty much meant taking a lot of bass and presence out - and adjusting the treble to taste.

Now the 8 profiles I use live really roar, just like the real amps.

Stick with it mate - I've offered a number of folk on here to have a go on mine. I'm in Chelmsford if this works for you

chrishill901

I got a few amp factory ones, some JCM800s and MadRyans Silver Jubilee (which sounded the best out of any of the profiles) and I downloaded 100s from the rig exchange that were rated 4 or 5 stars. I think it is the FRFR that is the issue for me, rather than the profiles, but in my naivety I only budgeted for a Kemper and a £250 speaker. theres nothing left in the pot for a better speaker. Im like the cameraman who bought the expensive body and cheap lenses!

I think more than anything, I have an overwhelming feeling of 'I don't need all of these amps and effects'...

David5150

I hear you. I started the same way with hundreds of profiles which was a bugger to cycle through. Now I use 8 live. Advantage is that I can be set-up in a matter of minutes and dont have to lug a half stack around any more

The EV speakers I used can be had for 240 quid from Thommans.

paulmapp8306

Fwiw, I've used my afx then afx2 since 2008. I've tried top end pa cabs (circa k2 each), more realistic tops, dedicated modelling fr stuff, headphones and my Adam ax5s. If I'm recording I use the Adams, but for in house practice or live work, its amp and cab (matrix at present).

I've tried and tried but just font like/can't gel with frfr. If the keeper/also didn't work for you, and while better qualitt cabs will sound better, I'm guessing youll never like frfr.

Try amp/cab somewhere.

Drew_TNBD

Yeah, FRFR blows. The only people that get on with it are praise and worship buttmunchers and TGP white-man-blues players.

David5150

Drew_fx said:

Yeah, FRFR blows. The only people that get on with it are praise and worship buttmunchers and TGP white-man-blues players.

Ha Ha - it blows if you can't set the feckin thing up properly

Remember that for any decent concert you go to you're hearing a miced-up guitar cab. Maybe us high tech kemper / axe FX junkies need to play venues bigger than the local pub!!

PVO_Dave

For me it was just a case of getting used to playing through FRFR, at home it's a bit odd as you don't have the amp pushing air around at a practice / gig the speaker should be far enough back to not really matter.

As suggested, the profiles make a huge difference, my favorites are from TopJimi, I love the '68 Superlead (profile 3 especially), a new guy has just started selling them too, when I get some time to actually play guitar I'll purchase the Sovtek and the Marshall KK (give them a listen).

Links to both places:

http://www.sweetspotprofiles.com/collections/all

http://www.topjimi.com/

One other thing to try, is adding some 'space' to the output you are using for the FRFR, this tends to emulate the amp pushing air round (as much as it can).

paulmapp8306

Op

David5150 said:

Drew_fx said:

Yeah, FRFR blows. The only people that get on with it are praise and worship buttmunchers and TGP white-man-blues players.

Ha Ha - it blows if you can't set the feckin thing up properly

Remember that for any decent concert you go to you're hearing a miced-up guitar cab. Maybe us high tech kemper / axe FX junkies need to play venues bigger than the local pub!!

Umm - the last 3 gigs I went to - top acts at top venues - the guitar sounds were truly awful anyway.  Maybe I just dont liked Mic'd cabs - real or modeled - unless its on a recording where there is so much double/triple tracking to fatten things up and so much post production to get things to sit/gel correctly that it sounds good.