Factory conditions

ThePrettyDamned

I look at modern, affordable guitars and it's really hard to reconcile the quality with the price. Brands such as Squier, Fender Mexico, Harley Benton, Cort and Epiphone seem to be churning out astonishing quality guitars at a very low price.

Comparing, pound for pound, to what was available 20 years ago, it makes me wonder where they are made. 

I notice a lot of low-cost high-end guitars come from Indonesia - does anyone here know what the factories are like? There are a few guitars that have really caught me eye, but I can't quite reconcile the cost to them, and if it looks too good to be true, maybe it is.

The brands that have caught my eye are ibanez, Jackson, solar, harley benton. 

drofluf

I think that Faith are made in Indonesia and there’s a video of the factory somewhere. But I think they do offer great value for money. 

DanR

My Solar is so much better built than I expected for £699, it’s the 1 series and the do go over £1000 depending on hardware and tops.

For context I do own a private stock prs aswell and so it’s not just a good for the money guitar.

ThePrettyDamned

DanR said:

My Solar is so much better built than I expected for £699, it’s the 1 series and the do go over £1000 depending on hardware and tops.

For context I do own a private stock prs aswell and so it’s not just a good for the money guitar.

This is what I mean - the reviews of these things are excellent (I would imagine Chapman, harley benton, ibanez, cort and solar are all made in the same area). 

So where is the cost? Are the factories paying the workers a fair wage, providing good working conditions etc? I remember some bad press around a factory some years back, I can't remember which... 

Bloody love the look of those solar explorer types. 

smogmonster

Apparently Cort shut down their Korean factory when their workers complained over working conditions (toxic fumes?), and switched production to somewhere like Vietnam or Indonesia. I think I read that here so maybe someone can confirm and add further details?

DanR

ThePrettyDamned said:

DanR said:

My Solar is so much better built than I expected for £699, it’s the 1 series and the do go over £1000 depending on hardware and tops.

For context I do own a private stock prs aswell and so it’s not just a good for the money guitar.

So where is the cost? Are the factories paying the workers a fair wage, providing good working conditions etc? I remember some bad press around a factory some years back, I can't remember which... 

Bloody love the look of those solar explorer types. 

I don’t think £799 is cheap for a guitar it’s a lot of money and it sits at a price point where there is a lot of competition.

The last two guitars I bought were the Solar at I think £699 and can see they are £799 now https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/181130335560006--solar-guitars-e16frw-white-matte and a Jim Root Strat at £1300 https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/10111009450029--fender-jim-root-stratocaster-black-eb

Both are really well put together and I have no complaints and I’m very happy with my purchases.

But a £500 uplift to get a USA guitar, EMGs, hard case and obviously the added cost of JR sig doesn’t seem a big jump.

So either they are paying the staff well for Indonesia or Fender are paying poorly for America.

DanR

smogmonster said:

Apparently Cort shut down their Korean factory when their workers complained over working conditions (toxic fumes?), and switched production to somewhere like Vietnam or Indonesia. I think I read that here so maybe someone can confirm and add further details?

Looks like that happened in 2007 https://unitelive.org/cort-guitar-makers-international/

So I had a look around and the factory is owned by PT Wildwood as you can see the gate in one of Olas videos from 2017 and google maps shows this is in Banten about 2 hours from Jakarta.

P.T. Wildwood, Serang, Banten, east of Jakarta, West Java. Since 2006.
PT Wildwood manufactures for Schecter, PRS(SE), D’Angelico, Yamaha, Fender, ESP(LTD), Supro, Jackson, and Dean among others.

Jakarta has the highest wages in Indonesia how this translates to outside of it I don’t know.

https://www.gretsch-talk.com/threads/guitars-made-in-indonesia-pt-1.200410/

sawyer

I've seen a factory video of PRS SE factory and it looked 100% better than any UK factory I've worked or set foot in. Health and Safety a joke in this country.

Funkfingers

smogmonster said:

Apparently, Cort shut down their Korean factory when their workers complained over working conditions (toxic fumes?), and switched production to somewhere like Vietnam or Indonesia. I think I read that here so, maybe, someone can confirm and add further details?

Working conditions in one of Cort's production facilities - I forget which one - would have been illegal in Europe or North America.

https://cortaction.wordpress.com

DanR

sawyer said:

I've seen a factory video of PRS SE factory and it looked 100% better than any UK factory I've worked or set foot in. Health and Safety a hole in this country.

Just go and ask the people in the clothing factories over in Leicester about how poor it is.

Its shocking that happens in our country.

ThePrettyDamned

DanR said:

sawyer said:

I've seen a factory video of PRS SE factory and it looked 100% better than any UK factory I've worked or set foot in. Health and Safety a hole in this country.

Just go and ask the people in the clothing factories over in Leicester about how poor it is.

Its shocking that happens in our country.

I've heard some really nasty stuff... A good place to find underage workers and people trafficked in. 

Funkfingers

DanR said:

It's shocking that happens in our country.

I thought that our country invented it. Victorian values, innit?

DanR

ThePrettyDamned said:

DanR said:

sawyer said:

I've seen a factory video of PRS SE factory and it looked 100% better than any UK factory I've worked or set foot in. Health and Safety a hole in this country.

Just go and ask the people in the clothing factories over in Leicester about how poor it is.

Its shocking that happens in our country.

I've heard some really nasty stuff... A good place to find underage workers and people trafficked in. 

That were still making clothes for the fast fashion websites during the first lockdown with people crammed into small factories.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leicestershire-53311548

DanR

Funkfingers said:

DanR said:

It's shocking that happens in our country.

I thought that our country invented it. Victorian values, innit?

Well you just hope that we left certain values back where they belong.

sawyer

Was anything ever done about the Leichester discraceful affair? Nothing seems to be said since it was first reported. Some proper shady goings on in this country seemingly unchallenged. We rapidly returning to Victorian levels of living and poverty. Last 30years have been a steady downhill decline.

Sassafras

Children have got tiny hands so they can carry out the fiddly work much better and cheaper than adult workers.

HarrySeven

sawyer said:

Last 30 years have been a steady downhill decline.

And the fun’s only just starting on that front...

Funkfingers

… and some of the UK population voluntarily CHOSE that option. 

Yesterday's faded.
Nothing can change it.

Life's what you make it.

ThePrettyDamned

I can't find much information on the Indonesian factory where these high end guitars are made, was hoping for factory tours or something but meh. 

WezV

here is a cort indonesia one

WezV

epiphone in china


PRS in indonesia


Solar guitars Indonesia