Floyd equipped guitars and the point of "Diminishing returns"

Asomodai

Hello all.

Apologies in advance for the wall of text ahead of you. I rarely get the chance to purchase a new guitar, and want to make the best decision I can. Although I used to be somewhat of a guitar whore, I want to buy something to keep for at least a few years. I am also determined to buy new, rather then second hand as I want it to be in perfect condition and with a (hopefully) decent warranty.

A bit of backstory. I used to play guitar fairly heavily in my late teens and early 20's but switched to bass almost full time until recently. I am also more of a "Tech" then a player and do all of my own upgrades and setups. I have not been in a band for about 4 years now and a year ago I picked up a couple of nice cheapy Cort Hardtail Strats and upgraded the bits that matter. I have rediscovered my love of "Hair" bands such as Crimson Glory, Ratt, Poison, Token, Whitesnake and the like. As such I am picking up a Marshall DSL1CR in the next few days to replace my Blackstar OD pedal into a cheap bass practice amp setup I currently have! 

As such I am looking at a Floyd equipped guitar to adequately ape those guitar stars of the time. I am unlikely going to play guitar live as I am quite a "modest" player and not particularly comfortable playing the skinny stringed thing. This is for my own pleasure at home. As much as I would like, I rarely get the chance to play, so it would be for occasional use.

When I was a kid and earned little money, I still somehow managed to have some cracking rare and mid range guitars. A Washburn EC-36 shred monster being the cream of the crop. However I never managed to have a guitar with a top drawer Floyd that could actually hold tune quite well (The closest being an Ibanez S470 with the original ZR Trem). Though I did have a number of mid range guitars which felt amazing finish wise and very solid. 

So we come to present day and I feel although guitars can be had very cheaply and the range and colour selection you can get at the low end is much better then 20 years ago. I feel that £400 doesn't really get you the quality feel, fit and finish that it used to get you. The woods used are (understandably) different and usually lighter, finishes seem to be lighter and sloppier and fit seems to be poorer at that low-midrange price point that never seemed to be a problem. 

I digress...

So Ultimately I am looking for a Floyd equipped guitar, with 24 frets, 25.5inch scale, a very LOUD and brash colour scheme (Hot Pinks, Graphics etc) preferably twin humbuckers but I don't mind a single H or H-S-S. Wide fingerboards are preferred, in the past I used to look to Ibanez, BC Rich and Jackson. 

I love the Jackson compound necks so I have been looking more in that direction. 

This is where diminishing returns come into it. I have a budget of up to £1000. I play very little and as such, maybe one of the cheaper JS32 series would be up my alley... if the Floyds were any good. I believe they generally just need a good setup, and they can be very reasonable, but due to previous experience, cheap Floyd's rarely return to pitch after use. Not only that, but a £300 guitar finish would be probably quite poor. 

So I look at the next step up the "X series" Maybe the Crackle finish Jacksons, these have Floyd Rose Specials, which are again a cheaper version, still with Zinc saddles, but are probably a fair bit better then the JS Series. But the price more then doubles to £600. 

For £900 I can go up to the next level which uses Floyd 1000's. Which are almost as good as the OFR's. But at this point, am I really getting value for money? £900 is quite a lot to outlay for an occasional player like me. 

----------------

TLDR: Considering my background and usage, should I just go for the bog standard JS Series with Jackson branded trem? Deal with the finish, set it up well and hope that it can put up with the 80s style trem usage? Is it worth jumping up through the stages to the 600 or even 900 quid range? 

What would you consider the best value?

Caffeine_Vampire

Kramer SM-1?

andy_k

Kramer 1984, OFR is the only reliable model for heavy use, IMO.

Caffeine_Vampire

andy_k said:

Kramer 1984, OFR is the only reliable model for heavy use, IMO.

Reissue has the 1000 series. Price is within the OP’s budget though.

andy_k

The EVH reissues look pretty good, Pacer style, if they work well for dive only, they will work well.

FelineGuitars

@SquireJapan has a nice Jap made RG that may be rather nice for what you seek, although a fair bit of dosh (fair price for the guitar though)

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/2801538/#Comment_2801538

Failing that get one of the Indonesian Jacksons and get  the block on the floyd changed to a steel one if it is a bit cheap . The 1000 series inn't too bad but often they have a cheap cast block.

Wearen't far from you so will happily take a look at any guitar you take a punt on . 

SquierJapan isn't that far away either if you look at his Ibanez 

FelineGuitars

Oh and there is a risk that you find you and I have similar record collections!

tekbow

How about an old Edge equipped RG from the late 80's/early 90's?

Basically a Gotoh 1996T which to my mind is the best FR pattern out there.

Bound to be one around for your budget.

In fact, what are they putting on the current RG550/Genesis series RI's? Because they're around 800 quid and meet the rest of your requirements too.

tekbow

According to the ibanez Wiki, the 'original Edge' on the Genesis series is Gotoh manufactured.

https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/Edge

Asomodai

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Kramer SM-1?

andy_k said:

Kramer 1984, OFR is the only reliable model for heavy use, IMO.

andy_k said:

The EVH reissues look pretty good, Pacer style, if they work well for dive only, they will work well.

Heya gents. Thanks for the comments. I was hoping for not so much a recommendation. (Especially as many only have 22 frets and I am not sold on a super strat shape! I have a genuine love for traditional pointy stuff like the Mocks, Ironbirds, Warrior, V2 etc) And more of a discussion of diminishing returns. Just because I "Have" £1000, doesn't mean I want to necessarily spend it, if I can get something that will do a reasonable job for cheaper. As I mentioned. I dont need something that will hold up to daily abuse. Just something that will get me through a few years. On occasion I have come across players using LFR Floyds that claim to have no issues. IE, Would a Jackson LFR manage the job with saddle and block upgrades or must I go for something a bit more substantial? At what point does adding more money into the mix give you a much poorer return? (Call me a tight miser!)

FelineGuitars said:

Oh and there is a risk that you find you and I have similar record collections!

Ahh quite possible! 80s Hair is something I never really shook off despite being a huge fan of modern Punk Rock, Hardcore, 70s English prog, Funk and Disco. Some of the modern Parody bands really do the 80's stuff justice. Crazy Lixx are incredible. I have only just gotten into Crimson Glory as an example, only because I have been a huge fan of Doug Keysers Bass playing in Watchtower and heard that Crimson were also quite proggy in a time where prog was a bad word!

tekbow said:

How about an old Edge equipped RG from the late 80's/early 90's?

Basically a Gotoh 1996T which to my mind is the best FR pattern out there.

Bound to be one around for your budget.

In fact, what are they putting on the current RG550/Genesis series RI's? Because they're around 800 quid and meet the rest of your requirements too.

I would really like to stick with something new. I used to be a huge fan of buying second hand, but this is going to be for just me Besides some schmuck has to buy the guitars new and take the value hit so you guys can snap them up second hand!

Asomodai

tekbow said:

How about an old Edge equipped RG from the late 80's/early 90's?

Basically a Gotoh 1996T which to my mind is the best FR pattern out there.

Bound to be one around for your budget.

In fact, what are they putting on the current RG550/Genesis series RI's? Because they're around 800 quid and meet the rest of your requirements too.

I may take you up on the offer. I have always meant to pop down to yours at some point. 

tekbow

Asomodai said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Kramer SM-1?

andy_k said:

Kramer 1984, OFR is the only reliable model for heavy use, IMO.

andy_k said:

The EVH reissues look pretty good, Pacer style, if they work well for dive only, they will work well.

Heya gents. Thanks for the comments. I was hoping for not so much a recommendation. (Especially as many only have 22 frets and I am not sold on a super strat shape! I have a genuine love for traditional pointy stuff like the Mocks, Ironbirds, Warrior, V2 etc) And more of a discussion of diminishing returns. Just because I "Have" £1000, doesn't mean I want to necessarily spend it, if I can get something that will do a reasonable job for cheaper. As I mentioned. I dont need something that will hold up to daily abuse. Just something that will get me through a few years. On occasion I have come across players using LFR Floyds that claim to have no issues. IE, Would a Jackson LFR manage the job with saddle and block upgrades or must I go for something a bit more substantial? At what point does adding more money into the mix give you a much poorer return? (Call me a tight miser!)

FelineGuitars said:

Oh and there is a risk that you find you and I have similar record collections!

Ahh quite possible! 80s Hair is something I never really shook off despite being a huge fan of modern Punk Rock, Hardcore, 70s English prog, Funk and Disco. Some of the modern Parody bands really do the 80's stuff justice. Crazy Lixx are incredible. I have only just gotten into Crimson Glory as an example, only because I have been a huge fan of Doug Keysers Bass playing in Watchtower and heard that Crimson were also quite proggy in a time where prog was a bad word!

tekbow said:

How about an old Edge equipped RG from the late 80's/early 90's?

Basically a Gotoh 1996T which to my mind is the best FR pattern out there.

Bound to be one around for your budget.

In fact, what are they putting on the current RG550/Genesis series RI's? Because they're around 800 quid and meet the rest of your requirements too.

I would really like to stick with something new. I used to be a huge fan of buying second hand, but this is going to be for just me Besides some schmuck has to buy the guitars new and take the value hit so you guys can snap them up second hand!

The Genesis series are Reissues and can be bought new for the price I mentioned  

https://www.ibanez.com/usa/products/model/rg/

Scroll down to the genesis series.

Pabcrane

If it is your main concern about the cheaper Wang system, would it not make sense to look at the mid tier guitars in your range (£600) or lower tier if you find one you like the construction of, and get a good high quality wang to put in there?

You said you are pretty handy with that kind of thing. Or would this ruin the buying it new experience?

andy_k

I would also recommend looking into some of the Schecter /ESP stuff, they tend to put good parts onto their models, I have a Banshee 7 string that is neck through, fully bound, like a LP custom, tonepros hardware, grover tuners and seymour duncan pickups that cost me £440 new.
Amazing value really, and I think if you have a budget you should maybe set aside a bit for a good setup, that is usually what makes the difference between playability of different priced models, I am sure the trems on mid price guitars are well up to the use you intend.

NelsonP

I have a 1989 Ibanez Rg750. It hasn't gone out of tune since I bought it over 30 years ago (!)

gusman2x

I believe you can still buy the Ibanez RG550 new. Made in Japan, proper edge. Wild finishes. Fit your bill pretty well. 

https://www.andertons.co.uk/ibanez-genesis-collection-rg-ultra-thin-super-wizard-neck-edge-trem-desert-sun-yellow-rg550-dy?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=surfaces&gclid=CjwKCAiA8ov_BRAoEiwAOZogwRVU9CBe6i8xm4ALMZt7xX2xRo2f-6J6kNwfCxliORPq681cMuVvoxoCgUkQAvD_BwE

ThePrettyDamned

NelsonP said:

I have a 1989 Ibanez Rg750. It hasn't gone out of tune since I bought it over 30 years ago (!)

That's a dream guitar right there... 

NelsonP

ThePrettyDamned said:

NelsonP said:

I have a 1989 Ibanez Rg750. It hasn't gone out of tune since I bought it over 30 years ago (!)

That's a dream guitar right there... 

Thanks :-)

I'd guess the RG550 reissues are pretty close.

mbe

I owns few Jacksons of various levels of quality. JS32 and JS22 pickups are pretty good for high gain, they are made by Belcat. JS32 has licensed FR that is adequate, only the fine adjusters may give cause for concern mainly due to a little paint or powder coat overspray on the threads.

I don't have any experience with the X series. They have FR Special that have the electroplated finish which makes everything fit together better. I think that's the only plus point over the licensed FR.

The SL Pro series has the Korean made 1000 series FR and the materials and fit are sufficient quality to stand the test of time. Only thing they might benefit from is a bigger block. I wouldn't bother with upgrades to the other FRs.

Unique selling point of these Jacksons is the compound radius neck on all from entry level upwards. Also I feel the slim profile is more comfortable than the Wizard necks from Ibanez.

My recommendation would be to find a used Pro Soloist Dinky made in the PT Wildwood factory (they have W in the serial number prefix). Those have Alder bodies and 3-piece necks, no scarf joint like the USA made Jacksons. They can be had for about 400 used and come with Seymour Duncan pickups.

skullfunkerry

I have an SL3X Soloist, mine is grey but they do a very lairy orange one as well. I've read loads of negative comments about the FR Special but the one in my guitar works perfectly: as Jon at @FelineGuitars has said above though, I'm intending to do the steel block upgrade at some point. Failing that, the Gotoh 1996T is supposed to be excellent and (I believe) would drop straight in.

Price wise, mine was £399 from Guitar Guitar last year; they seem to be a bit more now, but you could get one for under £500. Even if you did go for the Gotoh trem as well you'd still only be around the £650 mark...

Asomodai

I really appreciate all your replies. 

I am definitely considering an Ibanez RG550 genesis at the moment (In yellow of course!) as well as the crackle finish Jacksons. I am also quite enamoured with the Schecter Sunset FR that another forum member posted up recently, though it's not particularly traditional 80s looking IMO. I think I should at least shoot for the Floyd Rose Special and at least upgrade the block and saddles. 

I am somewhat disappointed with the lack of decent pointy guitars with decent trems north of the 500 mark. 

I do wonder what 2021 will bring in terms of guitar choices. 

Can anyone comment on the overall quality of Jacksons and Ibanez's from the year 2000? I did buy a low end RGA42FM and RG350DX a few years ago which both had numerous QC flaws which ended me in returning both.