Floyd equipped guitars and the point of "Diminishing returns"

ThePrettyDamned

NelsonP said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

NelsonP said:

I have a 1989 Ibanez Rg750. It hasn't gone out of tune since I bought it over 30 years ago (!)

That's a dream guitar right there... 

Thanks :-)

I'd guess the RG550 reissues are pretty close.

Maybe... 

But it's not an 80s RG! 

meltedbuzzbox

Apologies this doesn't answer the questions and it may come across more brash than intended.

What I dont understand is, you are a bass player that, by your own omission, isn't that proficient a guitarist and you want to buy a shredder so you can play very 80s hair metal which has quite the difficulty curve.
You won't play regularly (rarely) and you are looking to spend 1k?

I personally wouldn't do it. If you haven't got the chops and you won't be putting in the time it looks to be an uphill battle.

But if it is to acquire something and new I would go ibanez rg. 

Asomodai

meltedbuzzbox said:

Apologies this doesn't answer the questions and it may come across more brash than intended.

What I dont understand is, you are a bass player that, by your own omission, isn't that proficient a guitarist and you want to buy a shredder so you can play very 80s hair metal which has quite the difficulty curve.
You won't play regularly (rarely) and you are looking to spend 1k?

I personally wouldn't do it. If you haven't got the chops and you won't be putting in the time it looks to be an uphill battle.

But if it is to acquire something and new I would go ibanez rg. 

I am not sure how to respond to this, but I will try. 

By saying that your post may come across "Brash" and apologise up front is not an excuse to question what I would like to achieve, especially when you obviously haven't read my initial post clearly. 

I said in my first post I was looking to spend "Up to 1k" but I stated that maybe due to my skill level I should consider a JS Series Jackson if it does what I need. I myself also questioned whether spending up to 900 quid on a guitar was in my best interest. The whole point of the thread was to work out what is best for value and for fellow forumites who know better as to how best to achieve my goal. I might not be a great player, but according to the majority of respondents to play the stuff THAT MAKES ME HAPPY, I would require a guitar with a decent Floyd. Which could cost up up to 1K as many people recommend a Floyd Rose 1000 equipped guitar. 

I see many people on the forum with huge collections of guitars that they likely rarely play. I have two very budget Hardtail strats. Guaranteed I would be playing whatever guitar I get far MORE often then the average guitar in many members collections. 

andy_k

One thing you will usually get in here, is honesty, and sometimes the answers you get might not be what you want to her.
Anyhoo..
Another thing to consider, if you have a budget, is instead of buying an off the shelf model and hoping it will fit your needs, is to build something to your own spec.
at least this way you will be able to use parts that are top quality.
Most cheaper models will be compromising somewhere along the line to suit the price, so there is no guarantee you are getting a nice piece of wood under the paint, and I'd think you can get any shape you like in good wood for around the 150-200 mark.
An OFR in chrome, black or gold will be another 200-250
A neck, in whatever choice of wood and profile will be another 200
which leaves you with a budget of around 350-400 to source pickups and tuners.
These are very rough general figures, but you get the idea, at least this way you will end up with something that has exactly the features you want, it's not the answer, but it is a suggestion.
In the mid 80's I had my £200 Japanese Squire fitted with an OFR, and new frets, which added £350 to the cost, but I still have it, it still plays in tune fine, and in fact is still in tune when I pick it up after a long period.
I have changed the strings a few times mind.

Asomodai

andy_k said:

One thing you will usually get in here, is honesty, and sometimes the answers you get might not be what you want to her.
Anyhoo..
Another thing to consider, if you have a budget, is instead of buying an off the shelf model and hoping it will fit your needs, is to build something to your own spec.
at least this way you will be able to use parts that are top quality.
Most cheaper models will be compromising somewhere along the line to suit the price, so there is no guarantee you are getting a nice piece of wood under the paint, and I'd think you can get any shape you like in good wood for around the 150-200 mark.
An OFR in chrome, black or gold will be another 200-250
A neck, in whatever choice of wood and profile will be another 200
which leaves you with a budget of around 350-400 to source pickups and tuners.
These are very rough general figures, but you get the idea, at least this way you will end up with something that has exactly the features you want, it's not the answer, but it is a suggestion.
In the mid 80's I had my £200 Japanese Squire fitted with an OFR, and new frets, which added £350 to the cost, but I still have it, it still plays in tune fine, and in fact is still in tune when I pick it up after a long period.
I have changed the strings a few times mind.

My point is, hes criticising me of going to spend 1K and that it's not worth it. I said in my initial post I have a budget of "up to" 1K and it was clear I would rather not spend that much if a cheaper Jackson JS series would do the same job. 

I DONT want to hear that spending 1K is the only way to get a decent floyd that will do what I require. But some forum members are saying that. Luckily I have a decent job and wherewithal to spend that sort of money if it is required. Maybe he should aim his comment at them and not me? What he says to me is entirely misplaced.

‐---------

Either way, I could go down the parts route. I am fairly handy technically, though I have never replaced a floyd rose in its entirety. It seems that 24 fret necks and compatible parts are somewhat lacking, like it did 10-20 years ago. I'll consider it as long as the fit and finish of a cheaper guitar is reasonable, obviously I would need to see it in person  before making a decision. 

Are OFRs and 1000's drop ins to replace the Jackson branded Floyd's?

Vibetronic

I'd spend as much as you can afford...as for being a 'modest' player, don't sell yourself short...most people think they are worse than they are and it's generally not the case. Also a really good guitar will inspire you to practice more and get better, and if you play one thing on it that you don't think would've happened on one of your other guitars, then it's worth it

If you're lucky you could get a 2nd hand Jem for less than 1k - worth a look. I had a Peavey Vandenberg years ago which was really good too - think I got that for about £500. The old/good BC Rich guitars don't come up often 2nd hand - I've been looking for years. I'm pretty sure Charvel do a version of the DeMartini model (can't remember which one) in a 1k-ish price bracket too - may be wrong though. 

Also worth considering the non-locking trem superstrat variants - unless you're going nuts they generally stay in tune very well (enough to do the solo to Every Rose....anyway ), and gives you some more options. 

Great music taste btw! 

hollywoodrox

I love my Jackson SLX I play it all the time , the special can always be upgraded with saddles, block, pop in arm over time .

I also had Kramer pacer vintage Tiger  ,awesome guitar Seymour Duncan  fr1000

Charvel  So Cal and san dimas are also ace ,especially if you can find neon pink , slime green or that road flare red color 

Ibanez RG 550 genesis , road flare red,desert yellow or a vaguely flip flop purple
 made in Japan superb value ,craftsmanship ,instant 80s 

skullfunkery has just bought ,schecter sun valley super shredder at a good price,awesome and with a sustainer too. 

Jackson sl pro 

ThePrettyDamned

There is a lot of stuff about Floyd special vs se vs special vs original, and it sounds like recently the Floyd 1000 is equivalent to original, but in oem format - ie it meets original specs.

Not sure how true this is, but I've played an ofr and a Floyd 1000 and I couldn't tell the difference to be honest. They returned to pitch because they were set up correctly, and felt great (because Floyd bridges do feel great). 

andy_k

When I first got into FR trems, there wasn't a lot of choice, OFR by Schaller, and cheap copies.
I have never got a cheap copy to work reliably as a floating trem, and wouldn't even try to set one up as dive only.
The early Kramers, at least the good USA ones, did not cheap out on parts, and the more recent 1984 model, which was a Musicyo asian thing also got the good parts. These were originally retailing at £500, and were a great guitar. I picked one up already routed for a neck single coil, and it came to me with Seymour duncans fitted. The main difference with the trem, although still an OFR was the way the posts are fitted, using bushes instead of the wood screw design.
I know these may not be pointy enough for you, but these guitars were built like the EVH Wolfgangs, with playability being the main focus.
As I said above, there are now more variants of the OFR, and the differences may be invisible due to licensing, but in reality it comes down to the base plate and knife edges, originals are cast, or at least tempered somehow, and the 3 I own are all the only things that work well for me, for heavy use.
The early USA Peavey EVH branded ones are of equal quality, it is a miracle they stay in tune for dive only use, but that could also be down to set up.
I broke down some prices above, and it is not hard to see that you can expect to be getting close to 1K for something of that quality, it isn't really diminishing returns, more the actual cost of quality parts.
I picked up a Kramer Pacer classic, and an OFR was a drop in replacement, that was a £200 guitar, with a £200 trem replacement, and another £150 in pickups, so my outlay was £550, which got me closer to USA spec, which was probably close to 1K new, the wood was probably lower quality, but playability was fine.
I would be looking for something from the 80's or 90's cheap, as it probably still has some quality parts on it, but these may have been heavily used, or even swapped out, but if you are lucky you could probably find something in the £6-700 bracket.
At least it would have some mojo, anything new at these prices will be compromised in some way, but will be a good enough player for casual use.
Don't get hung up on perfection, it doesn't exist, but have some fun while you are looking for the one.
I never got into Ibanez, but if Vai puts his name to them, they have to stand up to some abuse.
Look out for early BC Ritch, or ESP for possibilities, but good stuff is getting scarcer by the year.

Woodenhead

Harley Benton have some guitars in the £300-400 range equipped with Floyd Rose 1000s. Not tried one myself but people say they're decent guitars for a budget price.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?sw=harley+benton+FR

I'd avoid entry level 'licensed by' and Specials are hit and miss too. Don't know how much a FR-1000 would cost on it's own but I wouldn't cheap out on the trem if you want it to stay in tune.

ThePrettyDamned

Woodenhead said:

Harley Benton have some guitars in the £300-400 range equipped with Floyd Rose 1000s. Not tried one myself but people say they're decent guitars for a budget price.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.html?sw=harley+benton+FR

I'd avoid entry level 'licensed by' and Specials are hit and miss too. Don't know how much a FR-1000 would cost on it's own but I wouldn't cheap out on the trem if you want it to stay in tune.

Fr-1000 are not cheap... 

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/bridges-and-tailpieces/bridges-and-tailpieces-for-electric-guitar/floyd-rose-tremolos/floyd-rose-1000-series-pro-low-profile-tremolo-system.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=2020-12-gp&pref_currency=P&shipcalc=UK&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuJb_BRDJARIsAKkycUlOU0JHmI9BrMBml3aL1WKy4OXyI8KRQC-R8D6M8S5mgFF0ueHB4SQaAoClEALw_wcB

Slight differences in size, but hardened steel etc. 

The cheap "licensed by" and specials are not so great, but I do really like the ibanez ZR - I don't know if they're affordable or not, but they're super fun. 

Woodenhead

I've not played a ZR trem but had an RG with zero edge zps/extra springs, felt a bit stiffer than a floyd but it was stable and returned to pitch. I liked how you could do unison bends without too much string sag, one thing I dislike about floating trems.