Trem Pedals - Digi vs Analogue

ThePrettyDamned

Okay, this has been touched on before but I thought I'd make a dedicated thread.  

I've been playing on POD farm and I'm quite enjoying trem.  I've heard the Line 6 M5 or M9 is the best you can get because it's completely programmable.  And, what with Trem just being volume down and up again in various patterns and speeds...

Why would analogue ones still exist? Do they sound different?  Do they do more than just make the volume go up and down in time?  

Apologies if this is a daft question I quite like the idea of doing the Line 6 model of the Zvex trem that lets you set several bands of volume up...

frankus

Stuff like the stepped wah/trems on the m5 and Linn3 are awesome, the only reason I can think not to get one of those is because they're packed full of other stuff and it seems weird to keep them on the board for several duties... my brain can't handle that kind of complexity in the living room I'd be fooked on a stage.

I am a big fan of analogue trems, the optical trems like the tremulus lune are just freaking amazing... I'd love to make a tremulus lune that's effectively a buffer till the depth knob (a 35mm knob like the fulltone supatrem) is turned then wub wub wub.

The tremulus has symmetry, spacing and smoothness and frankly those could be switches, I reckon the gain option could work on a dual rail pot with the depth, increasing the gain a little as the depth increases creating a perceived volume loss... although the tem that goes from unity to gain sounds good too..

Non-optical trems like the EA and Tuna melt have a greater variety of rates but I don't think they sound as good.

I think Midi for the tricksy stuff like beat synching, tap tempo, midi clock synched, sequenced stepped etc and for real mans tremolo optical all the say.

randomhandclaps

ThePrettyDamned said:

Why would analogue ones still exist?

The most simple answer is that it does not involve having to have your signal converted to digital and then back to analogue.  It's the same reason that so many modern digital delays go to great lengths to claim unaffected analogue through on the original signal.

kelvinburn

Honourable mention for the Adrenalynn and the Boss SL20 Slicer

monquixote

I have a Strymon Flint and it's really very good. I've also had various analogue ones and they are also great so I don't think it matters. 

What does make a difference is proper valve power amp tremolo like you get on a Twin. I don't think anything you can put in the front end or FX loop of an amp can recreate that sound, or at least nothing I've ever heard.

ThePrettyDamned

randomhandclaps said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Why would analogue ones still exist?

The most simple answer is that it does not involve having to have your signal converted to digital and then back to analogue.  It's the same reason that so many modern digital delays go to great lengths to claim unaffected analogue through on the original signal.

I get that, but surely if it's *just* volume up and down (in a particular wave shape) surely pretty much any decent digital chip can do that with no signal degredation? I thin I'll have to try some and compare - I don't doubt some analogue ones have a perfect wave shape but, assuming tonally it's transparent, there shouldn't be anything a digital unit can't recreate... Right? @frankus the two trem sounds I'd like are the stepped ones (that I can make go up and down rhythmically) like on the line 6 and the ones that can go 'Wub wub' as you put it!

randomhandclaps

ThePrettyDamned said:

I get that, but surely if it's *just* volume up and down (in a particular wave shape) surely pretty much any decent digital chip can do that with no signal degredation?

But as you know when it comes to people opinions on any digital vs analogue, the argument doesn't come down to being as simple as using your ears.

guitarfishbay

Digital trems won't bloom properly as analogue gives a proper curved bloom to the waveform and digital is like lots of really tiny steps, which is not the same as blooming, gives more of an etch a sketch type wave bloom.  :^o

MattG

TR-2 seems perfectly serviceable for most applications, it is however the only non built into amp trem ive ever used but yep certainly made the level go up and down

frankus

ThePrettyDamned said:

randomhandclaps said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Why would analogue ones still exist?

The most simple answer is that it does not involve having to have your signal converted to digital and then back to analogue.  It's the same reason that so many modern digital delays go to great lengths to claim unaffected analogue through on the original signal.

I get that, but surely if it's *just* volume up and down (in a particular wave shape) surely pretty much any decent digital chip can do that with no signal degredation? I thin I'll have to try some and compare - I don't doubt some analogue ones have a perfect wave shape but, assuming tonally it's transparent, there shouldn't be anything a digital unit can't recreate... Right? @frankus the two trem sounds I'd like are the stepped ones (that I can make go up and down rhythmically) like on the line 6 and the ones that can go 'Wub wub' as you put it!

I was thinking about it when I wrote my comments but didn't put it here...

If a midi or tap tempo was fitted up via an LED/LDR optocoupler it might sound great but all it might be the magic of the wave form skewing, shaping, spacing etc that the analogue pedals have might buggar up the timing (albeit in a constant fashion).

It might even be that that the excentricity of the waveform means wub wub sound could weaken when sync'd.

Ultimately an M5 makes the right noises for gigs.. but I like a trem with beefy depth and speed knobs ... or a "brake button"

ThePrettyDamned

So you reckon analogue ones definitely do have a place that digital cannot replicate?

I'll have to go out and try some. I have a really simple chord progression and a catchy octave riff (in case you hadn't heard enough!) and having some kind of trem on that octave could really set it apart and make it a bit more bonkers, either wub wub or stepped a la muse.

viz

I reckon the following. There are two reasons for effects - they are either "effects" or "special effects". The distinction is that the former enhance the tone almost without you noticing, while the latter add a distinctive overt effect over the top of the signal. And to my ear, analogue is better for the former and digital is often required anyway for the latter. So light reverb, echo, phase, flange, compression, chorus, trem and wah and distortion sound better in analogue. And keep digital for pitch shift, crisp intrusive delay effects, vocoder, etc.

ThePrettyDamned

Cool.  This is definitely looking for a 'special effect' as you put, nice way of putting it!

I quite fancy a special effect distortion too, I'm on the lookout for an Ibanez lo fi for that.  But christ knows, they will be used once in a blue moon... 

Also, still skint.  But possibly have a new job coming up soooooo... 

Oh, and I'm now saving for an OD1-x

monquixote

If you want a special FX distortion then I'd get a soundblox multiwave.

ThePrettyDamned

monquixote;294782" said:

If you want a special FX distortion then I'd get a soundblox multiwave.

Correct answer.

Screw boss, soundblox is way more nuts.

I need it to have that 'never mushy' digital sound though. Pete thorn made me want one...

Wazmeister

I think that Trem is the one pedal that CAN sound too digital at times... And the best Ive ever heard, and 'felt' (cause 'feel' is everything in a trem, imho) is the Demeter Tremulator. Incredible sound.

I have got a Goatkeeper on the way, and i'll be very keen to see and hear how this stacks up.

ThePrettyDamned

Wazmeister said:

I think that Trem is the one pedal that CAN sound too digital at times... And the best Ive ever heard, and 'felt' (cause 'feel' is everything in a trem, imho) is the Demeter Tremulator. Incredible sound.

I have got a Goatkeeper on the way, and i'll be very keen to see and hear how this stacks up.

I feel we want different things from trem...

noisepolluter

I've tried various - yet to try the Flint but am happy to take it on authority that it's ossomez. 

The best one I've tried has been the Empress Tremolo - which purports to be digital control but analogue signal path. to be fair, I've tried some digital pedals in the past which have been quite 'artefacty' - though for £200-odd you wouldn't expect to hear any extraneous digital goings-on, and indeed you don't.

When I got a bit carried away a few years back I bought a Frantone Vibutron, which is a posh analogue trem. I have to say that some serious work has obviously gone into it to make it sound as good as it does with such a simple control layout. I tend to use this most of the time.

Equally I have an EHX Wiggler which is absolutely ridiculous. Probably the least practical and user friendly design I've ever seen, but it has a couple of sounds in it which are absolutely amazing, and some quite outlandish ones. 

I also have a deluxe reverb - when the amp is turned up past neighbour-friendly volumes, the trem sounds amazing. At practice volumes, it's ticky and you can't get much depth to it.  

ThePrettyDamned

*looks up ehx wiggler*

I'm so glad ehx exist. Totally bonkers.

Bidley

I'd be looking at the EHX Pulsar, sounds awesome it does.

guitarfishbay

I had a pulsar. I liked it, sounded good to me.