Reality check opinion please

grungebob

I won’t name names or go into specifics but I’ve had an issue with an instrument and I’ve now got another. I want to ensure I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and not let my initial reaction get the better if the situation, so thought I’d share here and you can then tell me if I’m being unreasonable or just expecting to much. 

So like I said I have this instrument, on day one I notice a slight very tiny shard of the fretboard has come away slightly near the nut, I informed the manufacturer and stated I could probably drop fill a slight bit of superglue to sort and they agreed best way.

a few months later and I notice the switch now won’t select one of the pickups and there’s no relief left in the neck.  I slacked the rod off small increments over a few weeks but not much joy and now the rods 1/4 turn from being completely slack. (Also the nut slots were cut too low so as the E would touch the first if fretted at the third)

They agreed to take the instrument back, replaced the switch and installed a brand new neck (bolt on). 

Got it back and noticed a tool indent on the 19th treble side but no big deal it doesn’t interfere with play. I waited just over a week for it to acclimate before setting the action to where I’d like it, I can’t get the treble low enough as the bridge has run out of play and now the high E chokes out on one of the higher frets. 

Would you at this point allow them to rectify again or return?

thanks for listening. 

skunkwerx

If the bridge is slammed but the action too high, yet it still chokes and its not just a raised fret then it sounds like its all kinda out of whack.. like
the neck angle itself wrong or something or the neck twisted? 

I guess a shim may remedy it. You could then raise the bridge to get the action right. 

 I’d wanna make sure the neck is proper straight though first and everything else is decent. 

I think normal sales rules are after one fix its money back time if you bought new and above board etc. 

Personally, the switch thing is a non issue. My brand new Esp phoenix (dont get me started on those guys lol), switch went the same way after a month of use. 

Shouldnt happen or be acceptable but its an easy fix for an otherwise good axe.

Some switch cleaner actually sorted it, the tech didnt want to replace (even though I said I was cool with a new switch, without first seeing how I got on with the cheap fix (Zietgeist, good guy). 

But on any guitar at any price, if adjustable parts are at their limit then its a hard no from me. Back it would go. 

What if in future it needs adjusting to keep it playable? 

Those are the aspects not easily remedied and why I’d get shot of it. 

I also have just ran out of patience with buying things (non guitar too). If its not perfect I’ll take my cash back.

Funkfingers

If the neck is screwed on, shim it to get the pitch angle geometry within the available range of the bridge.

If the neck is through or set, you may be screwed. 

A fret rocker tool would help to identify individual high frets. 

It is possible that the neck of the unnamed guitar has an S curve or an up-ramp from the fourteenth fret towards the highest one.

Professional attention might cure the problems. Returning the guitar for a refund would be less effort.

ICBM

You can shim the neck to get the bridge height correct, but that won't fix a choking problem, especially if it's only one fret - that's a high fret or uneven fingerboard problem and will need fret dressing to fix, at which point I would say that's outside the range of acceptable and you should send it back if you can.

Alex2678

Doesn’t sound as though you’re being unreasonable to me. 

maltingsaudio

My take is it sounds like whoever you got it from are keen to make you happy so keep talking to them and find a way through, yes send it back again if needs be . They sound like a company I would deal with

grungebob

Thanks guys. 

At the moment humidity is being suggested as the culprit and although certainly possible the other guitars stored along with it don’t show any signs of issues and are rock solid i.e I’ve not had to adjust action or rods on either in over a year. 

It’s beginning to feel like I’ve spent money on a project guitar that I’ve got no interest in spending my time on. 

On the flip side despite the numerous issues stating otherwise it does feel like a nice instrument, one I’d like to pick up and play when I get the rare chance to do so these days. If I can’t grab it quick and play because of issues I’m going to stop reaching for it as time is short. 

ICBM

grungebob said:

At the moment humidity is being suggested as the culprit

Unlikely, or at least if it is then it still needs more remedial action than just a set-up. If it was choking evenly on all frets at the top of the neck and on more than one string, it's probably a set-up issue. If it's choking in just one place then the top surfaces of the frets aren't even, so either it's a fret issue or a fingerboard issue.

tekbow

This isn't a Snapdragon travel guitar is it?

grungebob

tekbow said:

This isn't a Snapdragon travel guitar is it?

Nope. 

grungebob

So I checked measurements and I’ve got 2mm bass side at the 12th and 1mm treble. There’s 0.5mm relief at the 7th. Guitar wasn’t playable. 

I increased the treble side of the bridge which cured the high fret issue but now sounds sitar like. It was also difficult to keep in tune. 

I left it an hour came back and it’s out of tune. Tuned it again and checked my other two guitars (one a bolt in one a set neck) both were in tune. 

The new one won’t stay in tune for the cowboy chords and I need to keep tweaking, the sitar sound won’t go away. 

Do the collective we think a fret dress and maybe a little nut work will solve this or am I best leaving it. It’s no fun to play it at the moment and this experience may sour me on it?

Funkfingers

If the sitar-like overtones happen at the lowest frets, either the nut slots are cut too low or, more likely, the neck has insufficient relief.

grungebob

It’s only open string it does it on but it didn’t do it earlier on. 

Perhaps raising the action up has got the string sat wrong on the bridge but it looks fine. 

ICBM

grungebob said:

So I checked measurements and I’ve got 2mm bass side at the 12th and 1mm treble. There’s 0.5mm relief at the 7th. Guitar wasn’t playable. 

I increased the treble side of the bridge which cured the high fret issue but now sounds sitar like. It was also difficult to keep in tune. 

I left it an hour came back and it’s out of tune. Tuned it again and checked my other two guitars (one a bolt in one a set neck) both were in tune. 

The new one won’t stay in tune for the cowboy chords and I need to keep tweaking, the sitar sound won’t go away. 

Do the collective we think a fret dress and maybe a little nut work will solve this or am I best leaving it. It’s no fun to play it at the moment and this experience may sour me on it?

Why would the experience sour you on it if it can be fixed?

The question is whether it can... at least without major work, ie a full fret dress.

To me, 0.5mm relief is too much, and 1mm/2mm action too low. I would start by straightening the neck to a relief of about half that, raise the bridge action until any choking stops, and check the nut height - fret each string at the third fret and look for a *tiny* gap (ideally about 1/4 of the string diameter, or less - but there must be one) between the string and the first fret.

Intonation and tuning problems sound like the nut might be too high or badly cut - or both - to me.

Either way, if this isn't something you can do yourself or get done fairly cheaply and/or at the shop's expense, I would try to return it.

grungebob

ICBM said:

grungebob said:

So I checked measurements and I’ve got 2mm bass side at the 12th and 1mm treble. There’s 0.5mm relief at the 7th. Guitar wasn’t playable. 

I increased the treble side of the bridge which cured the high fret issue but now sounds sitar like. It was also difficult to keep in tune. 

I left it an hour came back and it’s out of tune. Tuned it again and checked my other two guitars (one a bolt in one a set neck) both were in tune. 

The new one won’t stay in tune for the cowboy chords and I need to keep tweaking, the sitar sound won’t go away. 

Do the collective we think a fret dress and maybe a little nut work will solve this or am I best leaving it. It’s no fun to play it at the moment and this experience may sour me on it?

Why would the experience sour you on it if it can be fixed?

Just the constant back and forth and sending it off again and waiting around for the third delivery. First world problems but it’s a faff. 

Perhaps my measuring is off but I think it’s ok? The action is unfretted at the 12th and seems much higher than on my other guitar, there a noticeable travel each string goes through that is undetectable on my others.  The neck looks about as straight as you like with the relief set where it is. To get it so the fretted notes all ring true makes it unplayable as the action is now quite high. 

The nut height seems good ( the last one was too low), it’s odd but when it first came back with the new neck the action was high but all rang true and it stayed mostly in tune. 

Is it humidity or temperature, wouldn’t it effect my others also?

They’ve asked that I leave the relief set where it is as that’s their preferred spec. They want me to monitor for movement until the new year then send it back for a fret dress.  They are clearly trying to do the right thing and I appreciate it greatly it’s just a faff. For five months the guitar was great then bits started going wrong. 

Funkfingers

grungebob said:

It’s only open string it does it on but it didn’t do it earlier on. 

Where does the sitar effect appear to originate? Vibrating string just coming into contact with first fret or where it leaves the nut?

At this stage, it would help to know the material from which the nut is made and whether the string slots are cut more or less parallel (like a Fender) or splayed at various angles (like most Gibsons). Also, are any string locking devices involved? 

Droopy Jackson/Charvel headstocks divert the strings through such demented angles that is a wonder some of them are properly gripped by the Kahler-style clamp surfaces. 

Floyd Rose and licensed combined nut/clamps can and do wear - especially the cheap ones.

grungebob

@Funkfingers well I don’t want to give too much away as I’m sure me and the maker can come to terms on a solution and I don’t wish to put anyone off his work as it is good. 

The nut appears to be bone or man made equivalent, it does have some awkward angles to the string passage like a Gibson. Normal TOM type bridge and non locking tuners.  

It was fine when it first came back to me but after I tired lowering the action to were I would want it I discovered the high frets. It was only when I raised the action to stop the choking that the sitar began.  It’s only on open string and I think nut end. 

finest1

how about you find yourself a luthier. get them to check the instrument and what it would need to get it to play right. get a quote and ask the manufacturer if they agree to fund it. less hassle for them, less for you, and you know a reputable luthier would get that guitar playing right

skunkwerx

finest1 said:

how about you find yourself a luthier. get them to check the instrument and what it would need to get it to play right. get a quote and ask the manufacturer if they agree to fund it. less hassle for them, less for you, and you know a reputable luthier would get that guitar playing right

What if the luthier is the manufacturer  

grungebob

Well today’s new trick is a B string that won’t ring and the whole guitar won’t stay in tune.

tune it so open strings are in tune with tuner, play Emaj and it’s out of tune.  Play a F# power chord on the 9th fret and it’s in tune? 

I give up. 

ICBM

grungebob said:

Well today’s new trick is a B string that won’t ring and the whole guitar won’t stay in tune.

Do you mean stay in tune, or play in tune? These are two different things, and from this I suspect you mean the second...

grungebob said:

tune it so open strings are in tune with tuner, play Emaj and it’s out of tune.  Play a F# power chord on the 9th fret and it’s in tune?

That's the nut too high or something wrong with the grooves, or - very outside chance - the nut is fitted in the wrong place. (This is something you're only likely to find on things like 70s Martins normally, but perhaps isn't impossible.)