Complex wiring diagram: distortion diodes, dark cir, bass cut, kill switch, on/off treble bleed, OOP

alterguitars

Hi All,

I've embarked on a complex guitar wiring project. I've put together a clear diagram and I think it is correct, though folks who actually know what they are doing could keep me right. Not sure if i will have any loops or if everything will work. 

(Noise-cancelling in-phase and OOP, the tone DPDT split neck screw coil in both phase settings. In-phase, Bridge slug coil. OOP, Bridge screw coil. Volume DPDT treble bleed. DPTT 1: dark circuit right/OOP left. DPTT 2: bright circuit right/distortion left, and SPST kill switch.) I'm still unsure about cap values too. I plan to use a breadboard to test various caps and diodes. And to be clear, the enforcer pickups, while hot, used 250k pots in the HH Player Jag they came out of. 

Yes, there are a number of switches, but still two fewer than a Jaguar. 

The embedded image is blurred, but the link below is clearer. If anyone can take a quick look I would be very appreciative. 

Thank you for any comments or suggestions you may have,
Tristan

https://ibb.co/258kGdt

robinbowes

Have you tried the diode distortion idea yet? I'd be surprised if the pickup output is high enough to clip, although I may be wrong.

R.

alterguitars

Hi R., I haven't tried it yet. But I have purchased some low voltage schottky diodes (BAT 41 and BAT 46) which according to various folks, will work well with as little as 9k outputs (similar to the "Black Ice"). Others have said low voltage germanium will also work, and are less compressed (1N34A and 1N270). I have all four, and will test them in a breadboard. They are inexpensive, and worth a try. I'll post a video on it if the wiring works out. 

This is one example, though there are others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=387UKlhLtsQ

ICBM

The 'dark circuit' position on the upper slide switch won't work because there is no ground connection for the green wire, and the 'bass cut' on the lower switch will actually act as a huge treble pass on the volume control rather than putting the whole signal through the cap.

The diode distortion will work, but surprisingly you might find it sounds better with only one diode, rather than a back-to-back pair - that gives an audibly clipped sound, but with less loss of volume than using both.

alterguitars

Hi ICBM, I've read some of your helpful posts in the past, thank you for catching these issues. You've saved me significant frustration. 

ICBM said:

The 'dark circuit' position on the upper slide switch won't work because there is no ground connection for the green wire, 

1. I see your point about the "dark circuit", I missed that. I was trying to do the below image but have the "in phase" in the middle position, as opposed to the down position below. I haven't figured out the puzzle of correcting this, perhaps it isn't possible. As I look at this diagram I found on another forum, it won't work either (black isn't grounded in the top dark circuit position). Thank you for catching this. Do you know of a solution?

alterguitars

ICBM said:

the 'bass cut' on the lower switch will actually act as a huge treble pass on the volume control rather than putting the whole signal through the cap.

2. Your point about a "treble pass on the volume", i see the problem and I think I have fixed it. I instead come straight from the middle volume lug (purple) to the DPTT switch and then straight out to the output jack (bright pink)

ICBM said:
The diode distortion will work, but surprisingly you might find it sounds better with only one diode, rather than a back-to-back pair - that gives an audibly clipped sound, but with less loss of volume than using both.

3. I will certainly try the single diode, clipping asymetically then the top half of the amplitude. I'll try various diodes as well, Schottky, germanium, all low voltage, and see what sounds best. I thought at 22k for the bridge, this was an ideal pickup to try this. 

Thank you again ICBM!!! Please let me know if you have a solution to having the dark circuit and OOP on the same DPTT switch.

Best,
Tristan

alterguitars

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ICBM

The bass-cut/fuzz switch is definitely right now, I think - but something that might not work so well is having it after the volume control. Bass cut works best before it, and in fact there isn't any useful control of the fuzz using it in my experience - as soon as you back off the volume even slightly the fuzz disappears. Or maybe I wasn't using high enough output pickups...

The dark switch is harder - I think you need a 3-pole switch to combine it with phase switching. I may be missing something though - but I've looked at it for long enough that I don't think so.

If it makes you feel better I once covered several pieces of paper trying to work out how to make the Mustang switches give on/off/out-of-phase with one switch and parallel/off/series with the other. I eventually came to the conclusion that it can't be done, which is frustrating because it's easy with a Jaguar.

Sesh

Is there enough depth in the bullet mustang's control cavity for pots with push/pull? Just a thought. 

alterguitars

ICBM said:

The bass-cut/fuzz switch is definitely right now, I think - but something that might not work so well is having it after the volume control. Bass cut works best before it.

Hi ICBM, Thank you very much!!! I don't know if you were giving me a hint to solve this puzzle, or fortuitous then to have the Bass cut before the volume, and therefore on the OOP switch instead of the Dark cir. I can have my cake and eat it too. I think this will work?:

alterguitars

Sesh said:

Is there enough depth in the bullet mustang's control cavity for pots with push/pull? Just a thought. 

Hi Sesh,
Yes, the CTS pots provide just enough room (they are shorter than Bourns--conventional dpdt almost fit if you remove the bottom ground tab, .3mm or so would need to be removed). It means the ground wires need to attach to the side of the pot, however, rather than the bottom. Believe it or not, the conventional mustang trem system will also fit. The required routing depth is equal to the existing cavity depth. I don't have the precise numbers in front of me, but it means the thickness from the back to the cavity is 8.5mm. 
Best,
Tristan

ICBM

alterguitars said:

Hi ICBM, Thank you very much!!! I don't know if you were giving me a hint to solve this puzzle, or fortuitous then to have the Bass cut before the volume, and therefore on the OOP switch instead of the Dark cir. I can have my cake and eat it too. I think this will work?:

Yes, I think so! Although you can do it much more simply - the signal from volume to jack doesn't need to go via the switch at all, since both the diodes and the dark cap are simply connected *to* the signal path rather than *through* them... avoiding running the signal through an extra switch contact (potential unreliability). All you need is a connection to the pot output from the middle two contacts on one side, with the cap and one end and the diodes at the other.

That wasn't a hint, I hadn't thought of reversing it... the only issue with what you have now is that the bass-cut will only work on the bridge pickup, but that might be useful anyway.

alterguitars

ICBM said:

alterguitars

Yes, I think so! Although you can do it much more simply - the signal from volume to jack doesn't need to go via the switch at all, since both the diodes and the dark cap are simply connected *to* the signal path rather than *through* them... avoiding running the signal through an extra switch contact (potential unreliability). All you need is a connection to the pot output from the middle two contacts on one side, with the cap and one end and the diodes at the other.

That wasn't a hint, I hadn't thought of reversing it... the only issue with what you have now is that the bass-cut will only work on the bridge pickup, but that might be useful anyway.

Hi ICBM, ah, brilliant, thank you!!! I will save myself some soldering (which will be welcome, there is a lot there) re. the switch to the output jack. Good advice there, thank you!

Re the Bridge bass cut, you make a good point, especially given that the neck is usually the darkest pickup. 90% of the time I only use the bridge, and want the the bass cut to get a more chimey sound from it. I'm worried about how dark/muddy it will be because of how hot the pickup is (22k) and the use of 250K pots. I'm going to connect it to a breadboard and try various cap values, see what I like before final set up. Same is true with the diodes, I'll try the single diode as you advised. 

Thank you again for your time, you saved me much time and hair! 

Have a good weekend,
Tristan