One for the finish guys- is it practical to change the finish on the maple cap on this Tokai ?

AK99

As above - I never really warmed to the red 'semi' flamed finish on this doublecut Tokai. I

 was wondering what the flaming is likely to look like beneath the red, and whether it is feasible to strip and recolour, restain or otherwise refinish it ?

TTony

Might be feasible, but probably not a good idea, or worth the work and risk.

If that’s a veneer top (is it?), then you risk rubbing through the veneer, and losing the flame effect, when you rub it down, particularly in the carved areas. You might have to rub so far to remove the red stain and create a viable base for a new finish, that you end up with no veneer and reveal whatever is underneath.

 Also, you’ll wreck the round over on the binding.

If it’s a solid flamed maple top, then you’re not at risk of sanding through a veneer layer, but it’s still a lot of time and effort (or cost if you get a pro job done).  

Unless it’s a particularly special guitar, the easier option is to (a) get used to the colour, or (b) sell it and buy something you prefer the look of!

Funkfingers

Wot 'e said.

It may be practical to remove and replace the finish. I'm not sure that it would be cost effective.

If I were allowed one change to improve the appearance of that guitar, it would be black pickup surrounds. This would:
1) look right
2) direct attention to the flaming.

AK99

Yes the pickup rings are yuuge. I've ordered a set of lower profile chrome rings to try to reduce the visual impact of the damn things, but I still think the red colour isn't the best.

@TTony - I think it is a veneer. Good points about running the risk of wearing through the veneer and messing up the binding.
It's not a special guitar really - two things I do like about it is the way it plays and sounds, and the lovely rich SG type mahogany colour of the rear of the body and neck. It makes the lighter red on the front look fairly cheap and naff alas.

TTony

Are those BKP Mississippi Queens in it?

I think you’re right re the chrome pickup rings - it’ll match the rest of the hardware and probably have quite a significant impact on the overall look.

AK99

They're Iron Gear Alchemist P90s - with CTS pots and a trick loom wired so you can use the original push-pull knobs to swop them between series and parallel on the volume knob, and reverse the phase on the tone. (The previous owner was a proper gigging muso, so all down to him, not me btw ) My only contribution was taking some Brasso to the covers to take the gold plate off it - which I need to go back and have another go to finish properly.

Interesting variety of tones out of it, which is why Id be loath to let it go really.

Corvus

Personally my worst type of thing to strip - carved, binding, set-neck. And possible veneer (pop out a pickup sometime, see if you can see in the cavity if cap or veneer). Not that it's impossible, but very slow.. If veneered that probably starts out about 0.6mm thick, then likely sanded a little.

But there is one easier/cheaper option, which is overlay a darker/stronger tinted red on the top only. Scrape, clear over and lose the clear's edge at the binding, and there are a couple of tricks to that, because the paint on there won't be melted/blended by new paint (I'm assuming it's not nitro).
This way the red could at least be darkened down. Might lose some of the flame visibility of you go too far, but it probably won't take too much to tone it down.

TTony

Corvus said:

But there is one easier/cheaper option, which is overlay a darker/stronger tinted red on the top only.

I hadn’t thought of that - good call!

AK99

Y'know that's not a bad idea at all

The back of the guitar and the neck is a really nice translucent dark cherry / vintage SG type colour. Excuse the crappy phone pictures, but this might give you some idea of the difference in shade between the cap and the rear and neck (both taken in the same light) :





If I could darken the front down closer to the same shade - either across the whole front, or with a bit of a Burst finish, with it darker at the outside, that could potentially look really well.

It's not nitro - it was a 'satin finish' poly, a semi-matt finish. Looking more closely at it, Im wondering if was actually the same shade used front and back, but with the difference being down to it laid on top of the lighter maple cap at4 the front versus the darker mahogany at the rear.

You have me wondering now just how big / costly a job it would be to bring the front down a few shades closer to the rear, and what that SG cherry finish would actually look like over maple..

Funkfingers

AK99 said:
I'm wondering if was actually the same shade used front and back, but with the difference being down to it laid on top of the lighter maple cap at the front versus the darker mahogany at the rear.

That is precisely what you are seeing. 

It is what happens around the back of a red ES-335/345/355. (Dark over the mahogany neck. Paler over the pressed laminate body top, back and sides.) The same number of coats all over.

FWIIW, the full strength red pigment is named Indigo. It dries to the familiar cherry red colour. Handy for touch-up repairs and/or disguising pickguard screw holes.

sawyer

Gold top!

AK99

sawyer said:

Gold top!

Kin'elll, that's a bit of a mad idea... but I really like it I love Goldtops, and never had one..)

I have to ask - why do you think it'd work as a Goldie ?

AK99

Actually ignore that last question..



Ok so mine's got dots in the fretboard..but hey that thing is nice