Spray kit guidance

PeteC

Hi all, 

I just had some success selling off some stock I have recently and now have some funds to invest in my first bit of spray kit. 
Budget is circa £500. 

I want to be able to spray nitro ( mainly clear but some bursts too eventually ) and have been reading past posts and searching the net to gen up on spray kit. 

I'd still probably do less than 10 guitars a year for sure once the new workshop is set up - so I am thinking a HVLP turbine machine would be good - but very unsure what I'd need.   Previously @WezV had mentioned the guns and compressors from SGS as a good bet, but I am wondering whether to go that route or to look at the HVLP turbines.   Noise and size are also a consideration - smaller / quieter the better. 

Any thoughts ? 

many thanks 

more

I can't recommend any  make of spray , but you don't need anything big to spray guitars . Nitro is my favourite finish, it is not used so much commercially  now because of the proplems of using it .  Good ventilation is  essential , it is  toxic and explosive. It is better to spray outside , when the conditions are right, so portability is a plus.     

Corvus

For me, compressor - you can choose any gun you like with standard fittings. Although, I'm not sure if modern turbines allow that now, they didn't used to.
I'd buy the most comp you can, there's cheap guns that do OK and are the easier upgrade.
Something like 2hp and 50 litre would be good. More hp is more air output, supports more guns.
Small tank e.g. 24 litre means more running, warmer wetter air, but pretty easily managed by siting the water trap a distance away from the comp so air can cool and moisture can drop out.

Should match the gun's air demand to what the comp is capable of. Taking a 2hp one most small or midi guns should be OK.
2hp gives about 6-7cfm of delivered air, at higher pressure than you'd use, so guns up to about 9cfm will be ok.
Some guns despite small size do want tons of air so it's worth checking.

Belt drives are much quieter and repairable, direct drives can be loud as hell.

Probably wouldn't get an ANI R150 gun as it happens.. found a design flaw on both mine that cost me one spray job wrecked... Fixed one, the other prob £100 of spare parts.

greggreg66

I used to have an ASI turbine and it was so loud and drony. It’s a continuous loud noise. However, the finish was always good, the air it pumps out is dry and it’s only loud when you switch it on for spraying. The upside is you can store it in a cupboard, but downside is it’s only for spraying (ie a compressor has other uses). 

Compressor & gun is my setup. For work I have a screw compressor with drier and spray pump (way overkill for guitars!). The 3m PPS system is good. I’d call up somewhere like sprayguns direct and ask for a recommendation on gun. I imagine it doesn’t need to be hugely specked. 

I have a belt compressor with a busted pressure switch. If you were closer you could have had it! 

Deadman

I'd be useless at recommending anything other than a gun as I've worked in spray painting for 33 years and as such have always had everything I've ever needed there on a plate for me.

Gun wise, I'd recommend any small gravity fed gun. I have a Devilbiss and a SATA. Both are excellent. And actually I've just got my hands on a Sealey that was only around £50 and it's really decent for small jobs so I'd have no problem in using it for applying a burst (for example). Keep them clean  and they'll serve you well. 

PeteC

Many thanks Gents. 

I'll probably give spray guns direct a call and see what they can advise.   I can see the attraction of the HVLP but the compressor and gun set up seems a lot more adaptable in future. 
SG direct have a sealy 50L 3HP kit on offer at a good price so I could afford a few different guns with that. 

Jez6345789

@Corvus whats the issue with the Ani gun, I ordered one last year after good reports on here. And to be honest and not that I know a lot as still learning it has rapidly become my main gun for top coat nitro over  another Italian gun I got here as it sips air in comparison and seems easy to dial in for a newbie

thanks

Corvus

This is specific to the R150, I have another ANI different model & design that's OK. And I might be unlucky, but two of them did this - lob some thinners in the cup, lid off, look into it as you pull the trigger & spray (with air hooked up).
If you see bubbles rising that's a problem. Usually because the nozzle not nipped up tight enough or a duff seal in most guns. Also it's basically backflushing which is a cleaning trick - loosen the nozzle slightly and it blows gunwash back up into the cup.

The R150 relies on a metal-metal seal of air nozzle to body. There's two or three concentric rings on the front of the body expected to mate with the nozzle.
On one I rescued it by scraping the body face, the 'rings', with a sharp straight blade and scotchbrite. That gun did a stream of small bubbles so wasn't terrible but still not great. It's fine now.

On the other, great fat bubbles rose up and the spray fan was horrible. It had been OK for a few hours use but caught me out, I should have tested the fan and usually do, but there we are.
The body machining/casting is on the piss, the front face where the nozzle sits is off centre so the outer face or ring (the one thats threaded for the air cap retaining ring) has one part that's extremely narrow, rough, and now leaky. Haven't tested this one yet but I lapped the face to try and fatten up the thin part of the outer face/ring, so it maybe stands some chance of mating with the nozzle.

Don't know if it matters but the air cap has a machined face that's angled, to sit onto the nozzle - on both mine the air caps rock, like the fit isn't good. As I say don't know how much that matters, but the body/nozzle leak thing isn't good.

PeteC

Interesting.    Any thoughts on compressors. Are they all pretty much the same - any brands to go for or avoid ? 

Corvus

Not really sure Pete, not sure who's who currently, my newest big comp is about 17 years old and the other 23. Seems there's a lot of rebranding like with planers and bandsaws etc, same thing with different colours or slightly different details. But they are pretty simple things for the most part. Praps aftersales support could be a decider on two similar ones. Sealey generally do lots of parts, Abac is a UK company, I have one of theirs. They're usually pretty reliable things though.

PeteC

Being doing lots of reading up and watching a lot of YT review etc .   I'm still undecided but very keen to hear more opinions as I will be moving to the new house with the garage/workshop in 3 weeks time  - so its time to get some spraying kit ! 

Torn between something like this.....

https://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/hyundai-50-litre-air-compressor-1cfm-100psi-oil-free-low-noise-electric-2hp-hy27550?awc=17213_1613669602_32f041cf0ae701d1286687257cc6cd26&utm_source=AWIN&utm_medium=259955&utm_campaign=Comparison+Engine

and a Devilbiss SRi Pro gun,  (or two ! ) 

or...

going down the HVLP turbine route with a Fuji Mini-mite 4 , or their Q4 system .  

I'm pretty much decided that I will only go the air compressor route if I can find a nice quiet compressor as my tinnitus is a real bugger these days ( too many gigs with a 100watt stack and a drummer in my right ear ) - and this was definitely making me sway towards the HVLP turbines.  
Found a few videos showing low noise air compressors and now I'm swaying back that way ! 

Seems like I would probably get a better nitro finish with a compressor and the Devilbiss gun from that I've read.  Although there seems to be examples of luthiers using Fuji HVLP turbines and swearing by them. 

Budget is now about £850 following sales of a few more bits of gear recently. 

any thoughts anyone ? 
cheers

euan

At a minimum this should be the first thing on your list

https://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/index.php/masks/standard-manual-masks/moldex-reusable-half-mask.html#sthash.RxCNhoRg.dpbs

PeteC

yes - I have a filter mask already but might well upgrade for the spray work. 

Corvus

Couple of ways around the noise, ear defenders/plugs of course, or enclosing the comp in a box with sound deadening. Apparently extending the air intake helps. And you don't really want the comp (or it's intake) right in the spray area inhaling overspray, doesn't do them any good. They're not like say a router, and won't be running all the time - longer initial fill, short runs to refill.
Not to sway you just for some context type of thing.

Either comp or turbine will work fine no doubt, at the end of it you squirt paint on and sand it flat. Don't get too hung up on the idea of this or that kit equals best finish - choose what suits your situation & wants.
Like a top-end gun certainly does no harm but doesn't guarantee brilliant spraying; I have used plenty of sub-£20 guns and got good results (one or two went in the bin but..). With posh guns the fit/machining & longevity is much better, better through full range of settings, etc etc. But not essential to paint a guitar.

Like I said I don't know if turbines let you choose or use standard guns these days but that ability with comps is seriously useful.
Can a turbine run an air sander/polisher or other tools? Again don't know but for me that's a use for a comp, may not be for you though. Horses/course and all that.

PeteC

Cheers Bill.  Appreciate your thoughts 
I might make the decision based on how much space i have once i have the house move done and i get all the kit into the new workshop.   

Also if i can run a hose through from the adjoining room the noise level might be less if an issue.    

Seems like whatever you use practice is the key to getting a great finish.  I expect to have to rub back and buff anyway as you say