Choking on one fret on one string only...help

jdbwales

Looking for a bit of advice here gents. I’ve got a Vintage VS6 that’s a bit of a beater but an outstanding sounding and playing guitar, with one issue that I can’t figure out.

 The 16th fret on the high E string chokes hugely when playing - and ONLY that note. Beautiful low action with zero choking at every other note on the neck including the 15th and 17th, with smooth bends right up to the highest fret, but 16th fret is just dead. Not just for bending but for normal fretting. 16th fret on every other string is perfect.

 Guitar has had a fret level and I can’t detect any high frets - there’s no rocking. I’m no stranger at all to guitar setups but this is something I’ve not encountered before! 

Any ideas what this may be?

Funkfingers

Choking is a string in physical contact with another fret, further up the neck, towards the bridge. (Not necessarily the next fret along.)

The neck could have a ramp, twist or S curve. 

The pickups could be interfering with the vibration of the string.

The string could have a kink in it or a flat spot where it touches the fret crown.

ICBM

Definitely try a new string if you haven’t already.

If you bend the E to the same position as the B, but the B sounds fine there, it has to be the E string or possibly the bridge saddle, but it would be unusual for that to so specifically affect one fret position.

jdbwales

I’ve tried a few new strings, same issue on the same fret...yeah @ICBM it chokes out whatever you do, bending to the same place as the B and everything.

The only thing that makes it go away is raising the action at the bridge quite a bit but that ruins the outstanding playability on every other fret...it’s weird. 

@Funkfingers I should also say I’ve tried lowering pickups, no difference but they weren’t massively high anyway!

ICBM

Try swapping the E and B bridge saddles.

Slash'N'burn

Look closely when you are fretting the 15th/16th/17th and you should be able to see where the string is touching (or almost touching) an adjacent fret.
I'd take a guess that a 16th is a tiny fraction too low, so it buzzes on the 17th  - Or - the 17th is slightly too high, so that it causes a problem with the 16th, but the 15th has just a bit more take off to miss the high fret.

Do you have a set of feeler gauges? that would help comparing gaps under strings and finding a low or high fret.

jdbwales

ICBM said:

Try swapping the E and B bridge saddles.

I’ll try that - I actually have a spare bridge I can stick on, I just didn’t think it would be that severe. I guess it could be a saddle! 

jdbwales

Thanks man - will do that too! I’ve tried using feeler gauges and a fret rocker but still can’t find the issue. Driving me mad!

Slash'N'burn said:

Look closely when you are fretting the 15th/16th/17th and you should be able to see where the string is touching (or almost touching) an adjacent fret.
I'd take a guess that a 16th is a tiny fraction too low, so it buzzes on the 17th  - Or - the 17th is slightly too high, so that it causes a problem with the 16th, but the 15th has just a bit more take off to miss the high fret.

Do you have a set of feeler gauges? that would help comparing gaps under strings and finding a low or high fret.

jdbwales

@ICBM - just put the other bridge on - sadly the same issue in the same spot! I also tried again bending the note up to the same place on the B and it actually doesn’t choke out there, I was wrong earlier. Not sure if that makes any difference but it would seem to narrow it down to the E string. 

I’ve tried 3 sets of strings on this, topwrapped and not, 2 different bridges and it’s still happening!

ICBM

If it doesn’t choke when it’s bent to the B string position then it’s the fret. It may have a flat spot or a scratch under the E string position.

jdbwales

I should also add it seems to be worse when using a plectrum.

ICBM

Can you post a close-up pic of the frets at that position?

jdbwales

Sure - looking at it it seems like one fret is at a bit of an angle. Will get a picture now!

jdbwales

https://imgur.com/gallery/2sd5ygf

Seems to be a bit of fret sprout actually, I’ve circled it - I saw this before but I didn’t think it would have affected things too much as every other note is OK!

ICBM

That looks like the 21st fret to me .

The 16th could have a slight dip in it or the crown is too flat and angled slightly towards the bridge, it's hard to be sure.

The fretting does look a bit ropey in general though.

jdbwales

Yeah that’s why I didn’t think it’d be affecting it, as it was the 21st! 

The fretting on these Vintages is always a bit dodgy in my experience, I’ve had a couple and all have needed a bit of a sort - shame because they’re otherwise excellent guitars.

I’ll try a bit of a recrown on the 16th fret, hopefully that’ll work! 

ICBM

jdbwales said:

The fretting on these Vintages is always a bit dodgy in my experience, I’ve had a couple and all have needed a bit of a sort - shame because they’re otherwise excellent guitars.

This is fundamentally why they're £200 guitars and not actually as good as "the real thing", but the corner-cutting doesn't always show up as a practical problem. Unfortunately sometimes it does.

jdbwales

ICBM said:

jdbwales said:

The fretting on these Vintages is always a bit dodgy in my experience, I’ve had a couple and all have needed a bit of a sort - shame because they’re otherwise excellent guitars.

This is fundamentally why they're £200 guitars and not actually as good as "the real thing", but the corner-cutting doesn't always show up as a practical problem. Unfortunately sometimes it does.

All sorted - very light bit of fettling on the next fret up and the choking is gone. Amazingly low and fluid action everywhere now - saved the guitar for me. Thank you!