Can you recommended a decent wireless IEM system

monkey42

Following my thread on a new mixing desk we are now starting to look into a decent IEM system to be used for vocal mix. It’s for our lead vocalist so wireless is needed.

whats a decent system to start off with. Not considered a budget yet...just seeing what’s recommended 1st off

thanks

maltingsaudio

If it’s just one channel of ears secondhand sennheiserG3 or G4 system or similar on licence free channels

Roland

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/127326/talk-to-me-about-wireless-iems

mike257

The cheap and cheerful ones are cheap and cheerful for a reason. Best value for money would he used Sennheiser G3. Still acceptable on pro riders and far better performance than the low budget stuff. 

vasselmeyer

There are quite a few forum users of the Smooth Hound wireless system which is designed here in the US. I've had one for a few years now and it's been faultless. Their service was great as well; my guitar slipped off the bottom strap button and fell onto the floor right at the point where the transmitted was plugged in, smashing the transmitter. I shipped the pieces off to Smooth Hound and it was returned with 48 hours completely repaired all for £20. The range is great if you ever want to go walkabout during gigs.

robinbowes

vasselmeyer said:

There are quite a few forum users of the Smooth Hound wireless system which is designed here in the US. I've had one for a few years now and it's been faultless. Their service was great as well; my guitar slipped off the bottom strap button and fell onto the floor right at the point where the transmitted was plugged in, smashing the transmitter. I shipped the pieces off to Smooth Hound and it was returned with 48 hours completely repaired all for £20. The range is great if you ever want to go walkabout during gigs.

IEMs?

bloodandtears

vasselmeyer said:

There are quite a few forum users of the Smooth Hound wireless system which is designed here in the UK. I've had one for a few years now and it's been faultless. Their service was great as well; my guitar slipped off the bottom strap button and fell onto the floor right at the point where the transmitted was plugged in, smashing the transmitter. I shipped the pieces off to Smooth Hound and it was returned with 48 hours completely repaired all for £20. The range is great if you ever want to go walkabout during gigs.

FTFY..

and also the OP is after IEM recommendations not guitar wireless.

JMP220478

maltingsaudio said:

If it’s just one channel of ears secondhand sennheiserG3 or G4 system or similar on licence free channels

can you expand on the frequencies /channel info (keep seeing ch38 mentioned) please... also if another set of  inears were to be added at alter date or alternatively a radio mic would this make any purchases redundant ... totally ignorant with wireless side .. 

I now find myself as front person for a covers outfit - been using wired set up to date but find the cabling a pita tbh ,

mike257

JMP220478 said:

maltingsaudio said:

If it’s just one channel of ears secondhand sennheiserG3 or G4 system or similar on licence free channels

can you expand on the frequencies /channel info (keep seeing ch38 mentioned) please... also if another set of  inears were to be added at alter date or alternatively a radio mic would this make any purchases redundant ... totally ignorant with wireless side .. 

I now find myself as front person for a covers outfit - been using wired set up to date but find the cabling a pita tbh ,

So there's a big spectrum of frequencies wireless kit can use, generally referred to in Channel blocks. Over the years, various channels have been sold off or repurposed by the powers that be for things like mobile networks, telly broadcast, etc. Each channel spans a block of frequencies, so more than one system can operate together. Entry level wireless will have one or more selectable fixed frequencies within a given band. Pro stuff will offer full tuning across the range. 

Our uses fall under what OFCOM fall PMSE - Programme Making & Special Events. There's a license free band for us in Channel 70 with a limited set of frequencies that any bugger can use. Great in the sense that you don't have to worry about licenses etc, but in a big venue, on a festival site etc, you might struggle to find a free channel if others are using it too. You can get up to about half a dozen simultaneous mics running in Ch 70 if you're very lucky, and you have kit that allows the appropriate level of tuning. 

Ch. 38 is available if you pay a roughly ~£75/year license fee. This allows for use of many more simultaneous systems on different frequencies, and has less chance of interference from Joe Bloggs and his amateur kit next door. This is what most pro users are in. Sennheiser kit in this frequency range is sold as "GB band". 

For special uses, where you need to be damn sure you don't get interfered with, you can reserve your very own frequency from OFCOM, and nobody inside a certain radius of that location is allowed to use it at the same time you are, lest they get a stern slap on the wrist from the powers that be. 

If you're gigging down the pub with only a couple of wireless systems, you'll probably be fine with Ch 70 kit. If you're turning up to pro venues, on the festival circuit, or anywhere a little more serious, you'll benefit from having access to Ch 38. 

Most decent festivals will have someone in the audio team act as an RF coordinator, who will plan and allocate frequencies to each artist that needs them across the site for the full weekend, in such a way that nobody interferes with anybody else. You tell them in advance that you're bringing wireless kit and they'll tell you what to tune it to on the day so as you don't bugger up somebody on the next stage, or the site radios etc. 

Danny1969

Senn G4 is pricey but we find the G3 on ch38 is pretty good. Because there's always ex hire stock floating about you can normally pick up the belt pack receiver for £200 ish and the transmitter for a little less on a good day. Don't accidentally buy the belt pack transmitter which is used for headset and lapel mics .... there's always more of those floating about because they are used in the  theatre for multiple chorus lines and stuff. 

Spares are available for servicing, you can buy the battery cages and the ariels and the doors should they break. In general they are very well made robust designs. 

I have set up various LD systems and Tbone  IEM's for friends and was actually shocked with how poor the cheaper units are. If I was a singer I would rather use wired IEM's than one of those systems. 

JMP220478

Gents - thank you for feedback and support - genuinely appreciated 

@mike257 ; - when a seller just quotes a frequency range how do you determine if its a ch38 vs ch70 device ?

@danny1969 - I'm using a pair of se215  and a cheap behringer headphone amp atm - huge improvement over a wedge monitor I was using  - but hate cables n being yanked back like a puppy when i wander too far away from my my allocated spot ... 

mike257

JMP220478 said:

Gents - thank you for feedback and support - genuinely appreciated 

@mike257 ; - when a seller just quotes a frequency range how do you determine if its a ch38 vs ch70 device ?

@danny1969 - I'm using a pair of se215  and a cheap behringer headphone amp atm - huge improvement over a wedge monitor I was using  - but hate cables n being yanked back like a puppy when i wander too far away from my my allocated spot ... 

No worries mate. The shared license range in Channel 38 is 606MHz to 614MHz. The license free range in Channel 70 is 863MHz to 865MHz.  

Sennheiser give their kit frequency bands identified by letter codes. Their Ch. 38 kit is "GB" and their Ch. 70 kit is "E". 

JMP220478

cheers @mike257 ;

JMP220478

@mike257   -   Whats a guideline price for a sennheiser g3 iem setup - transimtter / receiver 

JMP220478

maltingsaudio said:

If it’s just one channel of ears secondhand sennheiserG3 or G4 system or similar on licence free channels

 What would be a guideline price for a Sennheiser G3 IEM system - receiver / transmitter - ? 

mike257

JMP220478 said:

@mike257   -   Whats a guideline price for a sennheiser g3 iem setup - transimtter / receiver 

For a used system, I've seen them go anywhere between £300 and £600, seem to vary wildly! 

The transmitter units and the receiver belt packs both often sell as individual items on eBay for between £200 and £350 each. Can potentially get a good deal buying separate if you get lucky, although you have to make sure you get the right frequency band! 

If you're doing multiple mixes on a budget, you can buy one transmitter and two receivers and do a pair of mono mixes. Running IEMs in stereo is an enormous difference in clarity though, I'd avoid mono IEM wherever possible. 

mrkb

bloodandtears said:

vasselmeyer said:

There are quite a few forum users of the Smooth Hound wireless system which is designed here in the UK. I've had one for a few years now and it's been faultless. Their service was great as well; my guitar slipped off the bottom strap button and fell onto the floor right at the point where the transmitted was plugged in, smashing the transmitter. I shipped the pieces off to Smooth Hound and it was returned with 48 hours completely repaired all for £20. The range is great if you ever want to go walkabout during gigs.

FTFY..

and also the OP is after IEM recommendations not guitar wireless.

He couldn’t hear the question properly, he had the jack plug end stuck in his ears...

PhilM

I've got an LD U508 IEM system on order. This is much improved (apparently) over the MEI100/1000. I guess I'll find out when it arrives.

PhilM

It has arrived


I'll get some testing done and update this thread. Incidentally, it was this (originally in German) review on Thomman that convinced me to order this...

"First of all: I am a bass player and I was able to test the device with a Sennheiser G4 today.

When it was absolutely quiet, both of them had only a little noticeable noise. I don't hear any difference between the various squelch settings on the LD. The G4 was set to the lowest possible noise reduction. But I didn't want to fiddle around with the settings of the G4. It doesn't belong to me, but to our gridiron. As I said, with silence the noise behavior of both devices is absolutely acceptable and even comparable. There was hardly any difference. In addition, monitor boxes also make a little noise. So from that point of view I found both of them quite good.

If you play with the bass (especially the low strings) alone, both devices add an amplification of the noise. You only notice this when you play the bass alone. The increase in noise on the G4, however, is not as strong and the frequency is somewhat lower. The LD has a slightly more frequent "rattle". Sounds almost like the carpet of the snare. This also makes the noise more noticeable. The G4 rushes "deeper" here. I suspect that the noise also appears quieter because of the frequency. This is clearly noticeable here.

This noise is hardly noticeable when playing the guitar and thus the higher frequencies. The noise effect is significantly lower. I had the impression that it also increased with the guitar, but because of the tone that is there, it was really difficult to judge.

I suspect that it is precisely the low frequencies that are more difficult to transmit here. With the guitar, the effect is therefore not nearly as important.

I haven't been able to test it in the whole band context, but it can be said that when the guitar and bass play together, the noise is barely noticeable. And that applies to both devices. I suspect that it behaves similarly to my tests at home with the PC. When everything is playing, the background noise should be almost imperceptible.

Another point about sound. Here too, in my opinion, the G4 can score in the lower range and sounds a little more punchy. But that is (almost) negligible. The manufacturer's specifications in the bass range certify that the G4 has a lowest frequency of 25 hearts. I think the LD has 40 hearts. Actually, the human ear shouldn't be able to perceive the difference. Still, I think it's also because the G4 sounds a tad better in the bass range. On the whole, however, the G4 seems a little better, a little clearer and more differentiated across all frequencies.

What remains is the question of whether this lead of the G4 justifies an additional price of 650 euros. If the head decides, then it certainly doesn't. But when did the head ever decide in music ??? So I can only advise everyone to test the devices themselves and then decide whether they are willing to shell out the extra price for the "improvement". For my part, I am now torn back and forth. The G4 would be kind of awesome. As I said, an improvement would be noticeable. However, when it comes to amplifiers and speakers, there is still a little better equipment that is much more expensive for a small step forward.

I have now decided (99 percent) to keep the LD. Today I realized that I can easily live with the sound. The tick improvement doesn't pay off for me.

One more sentence about processing: The housing of the transmitter is superbly made. Mostly made of metal. The receiver is made of plastic but absolutely robust. The thin antennas on the receiver alone worry me. But almost all models have that. Nevertheless: Absolutely roadworthy.

In a direct comparison with the G4, the LD does worse, but I still recommend it fully. Given the price, it does an excellent job. Hence a clear buy recommendation for beginners in in-earing."

PhilM

Also found this great review here - https://www.amazona.de/test-ld-systems-u500-iem-in-ear-system/

PhilM

So, the testing of the U508 happened a little later than planned - Gear4Music sent me an EU unit with an EU PSU, so had to wait a week and a bit while I explained (twice) that they'd shipped me the incorrect unit with an unusable PSU, and that I'd like the correct one sent to me FOC. They eventually sent me some universal PSU 

Anyhoo, there's only one thing I can fault so far, and that's this odd "pssshhhhht" noise at the start of any passage of sound.

Totally unnoticeable with music, but with isolated vocals and speech it sounds very much like a snare rattling in the room. I'm not a novice when it comes to RF stuff (I work with RFID in my day job) but no combo of transmit power, channel, frequency or squelch seems to shift this. Adding high cut and chopping high end out on the mixer bus doesn't change it, and if I plug the in-ears direct into the headphone out on the transmitter the noise isn't there - which leads me to think it's in the RF side or in the receiver pack. One of the reviews mentions a poor noise floor and I wonder if it is related to that?  

This kit will mostly be used by our singer and I'm worried it'll put her off. She has used wireless IEMs before but doesn't recall noticing this noise. Is this just "how it is" with the lower end of the market, fixable only by spending £500 more on Senheiser G4s? I'm probably crazy contemplating spending £800+ on IEMs that'll mostly be used by someone else, but as the guitar player/sound engineer for the band, her monitoring presents me with the biggest headache after our over-loud drummer. And no amount of money will fix him