Will I pay custom or vat charges

Jazzthat

With all the latest changes I am a bit lost and can't get my head round it . 

This is  from gov website 

For imports of goods from outside the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value (which aligns with the threshold for customs duty liability), we have moved the point at which VAT is collected from the point of importation to the point of sale. This will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on these consignments.

I don't understand what they say is it the same 20% , less ,more or what .

Anyway it will be a small purchase from USA at about £28 including postage .

RaymondLin

I buy small items from the US semi regularly, in my experience they normally slip through, but technically….unless it is a zero rate item, like books, you will be charged VAT if it's above £18 (it may have changed), and RM will slap on like £8 on top.

p.s. the latest changes don't apply to the US, it's the same today as it was before Jan 1st.  Our relationship to the US hasn't changed since 1776.  (waits for someone to point out that isn't when we set out VAT and customs)

fretmeister

Assume that you will pay 25% on top of the dollar price of the item AND shipping. 

Whitecat

RaymondLin said:

I buy small items from the US semi regularly, in my experience they normally slip through, but technically….unless it is a zero rate item, like books, you will be charged VAT if it's above £18 (it may have changed), and RM will slap on like £8 on top.

p.s. the latest changes don't apply to the US, it's the same today as it was before Jan 1st.  Our relationship to the US hasn't changed since 1776.  (waits for someone to point out that isn't when we set out VAT and customs)

It has changed actually - the new sub-£135 VAT collection rules apply to every country outside the UK, not just the EU. In practice I’m not sure how HMRC intends to enforce it, but theoretically if an American company sells into the UK and they send something worth less than £135 they have to collect VAT at source and register/remit to HMRC. 

We’ll find that a lot of sales platforms will handle this on the sellers behalf - eBay, Amazon etc... but smaller firms with their own e-commerce will have decisions to make. No orders under £135? No orders at all? Just wing it and hope stuff sneaks through?

Jazzthat

Thanks for clearing that up for me .

I was hoping  a small purchase wouldn't be a problem and possibly free of any charges .
But vat+RM defeats the purpose . 

siremoon

RaymondLin said:

I buy small items from the US semi regularly, in my experience they normally slip through, but technically….unless it is a zero rate item, like books, you will be charged VAT if it's above £18 (it may have changed), and RM will slap on like £8 on top.

AIUI it has changed.  Previously, imported items valued under a particular amount were exempt from VAT but now they are not.  I thought the amount was £15 previously, you say £18, but it was somewhere in that ballpark.  Probably a moot point for the majority of music equipment purchases given their cost but if, for example, you buy small quantities of PCBs or electronic components from China for a few quid which were previously VAT free then be aware they no longer are.  The early signs are that the sellers in China aren't adding the VAT (unsurprisingly) so you also get hit with the shipper's fee for sorting it out.  At the moment HMRC don't have the resources to deal with every one of these small cost packages so many are getting through with no charges but that will undoubtedly change. 

PS.  Before everyone piles in and blames Brexit for this, the EU are making the same change too so it would have happened anyway for imports from outside the EU.

Danny1969

I think US companies have to register for VAT to sell to us now, that's what someone I know was told when he tried to buy from one and they said they had removed the UK from their shipping option to avoid the hassle. 

more

As I understand it , the dealers outside of the UK will only be liable for vat if the web site is operating in the uk . If you  buy something on  Ebay UK , for instance , or companies like Thomann  . Otherwise it would mean UK based dealers would be undercut by 20% .   

gavin_axecaster

more said:

As I understand it , the dealers outside of the UK will only be liable for vat if the web site is operating in the uk . If you  buy something on  Ebay UK , for instance , or companies like Thomann  . Otherwise it would mean UK based dealers would be undercut by 20% .   

No.

As already stated, all imports under £135 should have UK sales VAT collected upon purchase by the seller. They then remit the VAT to HMRC.

Imports over £135 value are as before - no sales VAT is charged on purchase. However upon import, import VAT and duty is collected by the carrier. They will charge a fee for doing so.

Marketplaces (ebay/etsy/amazon etc) are considered the "facilitator" and it is their responsibility to collect and remit VAT for sales from outside UK up to £135.

One caveat: - it is (and always has been) possible for non-UK sellers to sell and deliver to UK with all duties and VAT included in the price. The official Incoterm is DDP - Delivered Duty Paid. Many larger organisations do this.

Fewer smaller sellers do it due to the costs involved - the remittance of the duty/taxes is still handled by the carrier, but they invoice the seller for this monthly instead of collecting from the buyer upon import. They still charge an admin fee for doing so, which is not usually viable for smaller sellers or lower value orders. Larger companies can negotiate this fee down.

Also not every carrier will handle DDP shipments - Royal Mail currently doesn't (although they are planning to introduce it) and most (if not all) third party booking sites will not handle DDP bookings.

darthed1981

I'm really counting the days until the British guitar shop cartel just make a deal with Thomann to stock Harley Benton stuff.

Thomann have actually implemented the rules really well, but ultimately sending a dozen containers of HB stuff to Andertons makes much more sense than us all importing them one at a time.

Whitecat

darthed1981 said:

I'm really counting the days until the British guitar shop cartel just make a deal with Thomann to stock Harley Benton stuff.

Thomann have actually implemented the rules really well, but ultimately sending a dozen containers of HB stuff to Andertons makes much more sense than us all importing them one at a time.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Thomann just to have a warehouse here full of HB stuff? I thought I read on TGP that some US customers ordering Harley Bentons are having them shipped from a location in the US... may be mistaken but perhaps they are doing it there?

Anyway, it seems like HBs are on pretty razor-thin margins so adding third party dealers into the mix may be more complicated than it looks. 

darthed1981

Whitecat said:

darthed1981 said:

I'm really counting the days until the British guitar shop cartel just make a deal with Thomann to stock Harley Benton stuff.

Thomann have actually implemented the rules really well, but ultimately sending a dozen containers of HB stuff to Andertons makes much more sense than us all importing them one at a time.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Thomann just to have a warehouse here full of HB stuff? I thought I read on TGP that some US customers ordering Harley Bentons are having them shipped from a location in the US... may be mistaken but perhaps they are doing it there?

Anyway, it seems like HBs are on pretty razor-thin margins so adding third party dealers into the mix may be more complicated than it looks. 

A warehouse implies hiring a bunch of people, which implies a UK subsidiary, so not necessarily.  They could use a fulfilment company (I work for one, ironically) but their stuff is bulky and fragile, so nobody would want it much.

The UK cartel have tried to "do an HB" with the Eastcoast stuff, not sure how successful it's been but it looks great, I tried one of the acoustics and for 100 quid it was damn good.

But sales to the UK will start to become a more challenging thing for Thomann, so some deal to stay in the UK market may appeal, who knows.

exocet

darthed1981 said:

Whitecat said:

darthed1981 said:

I'm really counting the days until the British guitar shop cartel just make a deal with Thomann to stock Harley Benton stuff.

Thomann have actually implemented the rules really well, but ultimately sending a dozen containers of HB stuff to Andertons makes much more sense than us all importing them one at a time.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Thomann just to have a warehouse here full of HB stuff? I thought I read on TGP that some US customers ordering Harley Bentons are having them shipped from a location in the US... may be mistaken but perhaps they are doing it there?

Anyway, it seems like HBs are on pretty razor-thin margins so adding third party dealers into the mix may be more complicated than it looks. 

A warehouse implies hiring a bunch of people, which implies a UK subsidiary, so not necessarily.  They could use a fulfilment company (I work for one, ironically) but their stuff is bulky and fragile, so nobody would want it much.

The UK cartel have tried to "do an HB" with the Eastcoast stuff, not sure how successful it's been but it looks great, I tried one of the acoustics and for 100 quid it was damn good.

But sales to the UK will start to become a more challenging thing for Thomann, so some deal to stay in the UK market may appeal, who knows.

It'll be interesting to see whether Thomann explore a warehouse type subsidiary arrangement or whether the "delivery duty paid" option is viable. 

The current arrangements whereby a logistics company handles customs clearance is not cost effective for small transactions.

I've bought stuff from Amazon in U.S which was supplied "duty paid". It was very slick / no silly handling fees BUT it was fulfilled via EU ports whilst UK was still in EU. Will be interesting to see if Amazon carry on with this with UK outside of EU. 

Whitecat

darthed1981 said:

Whitecat said:

darthed1981 said:

I'm really counting the days until the British guitar shop cartel just make a deal with Thomann to stock Harley Benton stuff.

Thomann have actually implemented the rules really well, but ultimately sending a dozen containers of HB stuff to Andertons makes much more sense than us all importing them one at a time.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for Thomann just to have a warehouse here full of HB stuff? I thought I read on TGP that some US customers ordering Harley Bentons are having them shipped from a location in the US... may be mistaken but perhaps they are doing it there?

Anyway, it seems like HBs are on pretty razor-thin margins so adding third party dealers into the mix may be more complicated than it looks. 

A warehouse implies hiring a bunch of people, which implies a UK subsidiary, so not necessarily.  They could use a fulfilment company (I work for one, ironically) but their stuff is bulky and fragile, so nobody would want it much.

The UK cartel have tried to "do an HB" with the Eastcoast stuff, not sure how successful it's been but it looks great, I tried one of the acoustics and for 100 quid it was damn good.

But sales to the UK will start to become a more challenging thing for Thomann, so some deal to stay in the UK market may appeal, who knows.

They’ve had a UK subsidiary for a long time - business-wise they are ready to go, they would just need the space and the staff. 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06635477

chillidoggy

Harley Benton. Is that a motorbike?