Any HiFi (as in proper high fidelity) freaks?

prowla

sweepy said:

My little setup is quite straightforward
Linn Isobark DMS speakers
Tube Technology Valve Power Amp
ELV Preamp 
Project DMXperience 2 turntable 
Ortofon Black
Marantz CD6700

I've never had a room big enough for a pair of Isobariks.

I think some Orange cabs were Isobariks.

prowla

RustySpanner said:

I've played in brass bands and orchestras, albeit at a very low level. 
I'd like to think I know what live acoustic  instruments sound like. 

For me, my 35 year old Rega TT (with Denon cartridge), Marantz PM66KI, ancient Technics MASH CD player and Tannoy speakers sound as close to that as I've heard. 

If it can't make a piano sound like a piano, it's worthless, no matter how expensive or 'high end' it pretends to be. 

Brass band stuff is a great test - you can go and hear good brass almost everywhere. Does your system reproduce the detail, power, soundstage and dynamics of a good band?

Spoken vocals are a great test as well. 

If it can't reproduce the simple things, a violin or a drum kit, it might be a nice system, but it ain't HiFi. 

One test is whether the drummer stops when the guitarist plays a power chord.

rze99

I’ve got a Naim Separates set up. Does that count as high end?

prowla

rze99 said:

I’ve got a Naim Separates set up. Does that count as high end?

Depends if it's the high-end Naim kit...

RustySpanner

I've never heard a Linn/Naim setup that actually sounds  real.

They're fun, and sound more 'Naim' the more you spend, but they don't sound anything like real instruments. 

Kans are a prime example, as are Isobariks. 
Yes, they play 'tunes',  but they do not and have never reproduced music. 

They are more of a cult, a religion than a means of accurately  reproducing sound. 

prowla

RustySpanner said:

I've never heard a Linn/Naim setup that actually sounds  real.

They're fun, and sound more 'Naim' the more you spend, but they don't sound anything like real instruments. 

Kans are a prime example, as are Isobariks. 
Yes, they play 'tunes',  but they do not and have never reproduced music. 

They are more of a cult, a religion than a means of accurately  reproducing sound. 

And thus spake the cult of anti-Naim. :-)

60cycles

Happy to see so many folks replying!
I feared i'd be met with the usual (and partly justified, see "audiophiles") negativity honestly, so went a bit passive/aggressive when TheMarlin posted asking what i meant exactly.
Due apologies @TheMarlin as it appears you simply misunderstood the OP

This is rather encouraging actually, let's hope more chip in.

As mentioned elsewhere i'm a bit of a caveman, so no smart phones, 8k digital cameras and the like am afraid.
But in the interest of contributing, my systems are currently:

The living room. See: when she's not in the house. Also see: why my dog lives outside.
- Micro Seiki SX-8000 (sliiightly modified by me).
- Airtangent 2002 tonearm.
- Van Den Hul Grasshoper GLA MKiii cartridge.
- B&W Nautilus speakers (back in the good ole days when British meant BRITISH).
- Driven by a measly four, yes, four, Krell FPB 750MCXs. Modified by me..
- Power distribution, cables and connectors a mix of Furutech and Oyaide.
- Feet and rack system by Finite elemente.

The desktop. Used while i melt my eyes in front of a screen like the modern day monkey they want us all to be; or become..
- DAC built by me -as most things are in both lists-, but loosely focused on Stax's exceptional DAC-X1T. Why loosely thee ask? Because unlike Stax, money and volume weren't an object; thus, it now has its own external power supply and its main unit rather extensively modified; towards the better that is. I pray to God it doesn't ever malfunction, as certain components are no longer being made and they cost so much back then, i just couldn't afford to buy doubles (modules alone were insane). To service this should the need arise, i'd need literally redesign parts of its main unit, so as to accommodate me in finding replacements.
- SRX Plus further upgraded and built by yours truly (that's an electrostatic amplifier)
- STAX SR-009s headphones. Could not afford the original Omegas back in the 90s, so.. second best.
- Power distribution, cables and connectors are all Furutech.
- Feet and rack system all from Finite Elemente (Pagodas in both rooms, but the old models, before they went greed-happy and the professor left them)

Probably forgot an item or two, my apologies if so.

And yes, i know; i do.
But, lol.. I paid for it fair and square. And it's been a lifetime's work. Plus, am in the business.

Is it worth it? Ooh yeah. It really is.

* As to Naim, he's not wrong really. Ideally, you'd only recommend so as to balance a system heavily leaning towards brightness to name the most ovious, though other criteria also apply to this. Still an exceptional company however.

RustySpanner

No, not  really.

I bought my first decent system from a 'Flat Earth' Linn/Naim dealership and chose Rega, Creek and Royd. 

I found the Linn/Naim sound unnatural and haven't changed my opinion since. 

Every piece of equipment I buy is subjected to a blind test, rather than blind acceptance . 

60cycles

It is un-natural ^^
However, almost everything is.. The point is where/how and whether it can thus be utilised in a system over-compensating in some areas, but lacking in others. AKA, your HiFi 101 until you've spent a kidney, a liver and a couple of offspring you thought best to sell in the dark web. After all, you could always make more! Right..?

RustySpanner

I have no idea what you're talking about. 

60cycles

OK. But compressed, so folks don't commit hara-kiri on me.

So very roughly put;
You end up with 'a' system, got your source(s), amplification/drive, your monitors/drivers, plus the bulk of its cabling (yes, signal degrades, so yes, it matters), plus whatever you've done or neglected to in terms of the mechanical; be it by absorbing or transferring vibrations.
The lot combined produces 'a' sound, which by very definition will not be the real thing, ever. Always an approximation, you playing with the percentages. How close to what the real thing 'would be' (it being where the subjective creeps in, albeit it gets worse).
Said sound might be, again to keep it plain, say leaning towards bright, or dark. It might say have the appearance of balance, only it sounds boxed in, or artificial. It might sound airy, but lacking flow or attack. And the list goes on.
So.. you compensate. You isolate the unit/component most responsible for said.. "deviation" from what you (subjective) think is ideal, and replace it with another unit that will balance the whole, or more realistically, bring it a bit closer to how the real thing 'would be'.
(presuming you [figuratively speaking] have even the slightest of what that is, but let us skip this part, lol)

Now to your implied question, Naim does have a 'signature' sound. Most companies tend to build in that way, so as to sonically stand out/differentiate themselves. They also happen to be very good in some areas, so so in others and so on.
You can have systems where something Naim will shine, you can have systems where it will impede.

They do however (or rather, used to, i don't follow their new and all-digital lineup) offer very good products and they do have their place.
They were also smart enough to go for a combination of attributes that even back then were gaining prominence among the HiFi crowd (sadly, but..); so naturally, as time went by, they developed a fanbase. You need not be in it, am not either.

just doesn't mean they're bad
Thousands of folks thinking they're "listening" could only wish for a couple of Naim units in their systems. To keep it realistic this last bit..

Rocker

A hi-fi system is assembled to bring the music closer to the listener.  Irrespective of it's price, it needs to be setup properly for the room it is installed in, in order for it to sound as good as it is is capable of.  This is the main reason to buy the kit from a hi-fi dealer who can demonstrate it before purchase and install it in the purchasers home.  The small overall price hike over the cost of buying boxes from online sellers is more than offset by the fact that the system will give enjoyment and musical satisfaction for decades to come.

I have listened to music through a hi-fi system, many different ones it has to be said, for around fifty years.  I have had turntables, cassette decks, tuners and CD players.  I now have a CD player with a digital input [and analogue volume control].  The digital input receives a signal from a Sonos system which plays FLAC files stored on my computer.

Details of my system:

Resolution Audio Opus CD player
A pair of Classe CA M350 monoblocks
B&W 803D speakers
All silver wired balanced interconnects, speaker cables, mains cables.
A self built mains distribution block
A dedicated mains spur/one socket ring combo for the hi-fi system.

My system is old but it works very well as it majors on the music on disk rather than startling detail such as soundstage depth or width etc.  I get immersed in the music which varies from Chopin to AC/DC with folk, blues, country and country rock getting most plays.  I have about 1800 CDs with about a third of these Classical.

60cycles

Old isn't an issue in this 'sport'. On the contrary, it can often be a boon; see current manufacturing techniques, SMD components, silicon rather than valves.
And deserving its own mention unfortunately, see musical trends and the decline of it all. All digital, all compressed, all algorithm guesswork rather than reproducing with fidelity, etc. etc.

(with some knowldge of course, one can always upgrade older equipment, as technological advances can occasionally be of help if used wisely, but that is an asterisk for the few)

With one exception; speakers.
Speakers.. are probably the one and only element that evolves; as in literally, they have evolved and continue to do so. And it is an evolution most evident sonically. For those with deep pockets, granted, but evolving they are.

* Personally speaking however, am also "done". Enough

prowla

I’m sensing Naim negativity. 

Next there’ll be folks saying they don’t like Rickenbacker basses!

viz

60cycles said:

Old isn't an issue in this 'sport'. On the contrary, it can often be a boon; see current manufacturing techniques, SMD components, silicon rather than valves.
And deserving its own mention unfortunately, see musical trends and the decline of it all. All digital, all compressed, all algorithm guesswork rather than reproducing with fidelity, etc. etc.

(with some knowldge of course, one can always upgrade older equipment, as technological advances can occasionally be of help if used wisely, but that is an asterisk for the few)

With one exception; speakers.
Speakers.. are probably the one and only element that evolves; as in literally, they have evolved and continue to do so.

And dacs / streamers obvs. 

viz

60cycles said:

- Airtangent 2002 tonearm.
- Van Den Hul Grasshoper GLA MKiii cartridge.

Bet they make records sound nice. 

Edit - that and the Micro Seiki - those things are heavy!

scrumhalf

On the assumption that money is limiting factor I'd rather spend a little less on hifi and more to on having stuff to play on it. 

60cycles

@viz prominent among them, yes.. the more one knows about music and electronics, the more one finds one's self astounded over where it's all going.
Until of course one factors in profit and greed, lol, at which point.. it all makes sense again.
(your useless information of the day, this is all starts with Philips and their accursed 'new' at the time format and way of 'storing' information)

As to the Seiki, whatever objectivity my profession may call for, eye of the beholder in all things. There's certainly better out there*, but not for me, i run out of offspring to sell.
* see here: https://techdas.jp/pages/air-force-iii-premium/
** by total, total coincidence, same brain behind both companies. And, continuing with the uncanny coincidences of course, Japanese.

@scrumhalf definitely and by a mile. The shelves full (and commonly perused) first and foremost ^^

Budgie

scrumhalf said:

On the assumption that money is limiting factor I'd rather spend a little less on hifi and more to on having stuff to play on it. 

That’s exactly my philosophy too. I added up the new price of my gear and it’s somewhere in the region of £1500-2000, which is a decent amount of cash to spend but obviously peanuts for hifi but it sounds good to me. I’m sure I’m going to tweak it to get the most from it but I suspect diminishing returns kicks in quite quickly.

I’m spending a small fortune on stuff to play on it though, mostly vinyl. Fortunately, I’d kept a couple of hundred LPs and even more CDs rather than sell everything years ago. I do lament the stuff I did sell though.

prowla

scrumhalf said:

On the assumption that money is limiting factor I'd rather spend a little less on hifi and more to on having stuff to play on it. 

I’ve probably got more CDs & LPs than I’ll ever listen to. 

So it’s not an either/or.