pedals with buffers...?

siraxeman

Say you have 1 pedal at the end of a chain that is buffered...and half a dozen true bypass ones before it. Does that one at the end bump the signal right back up to its original level on its way out to your amp ? Just trying to understand all this buffered vs true bypass malarkey...and what I said is currently how I think of it..but am I right ??

Majorscale

Ideally a buffer should be as close to the front as possible to give all pedals after it as good a signal as possible. However there are a number of pedals that generally dislike buffers before them, such as some compressors, wahs and most fuzzes. Due to this my buffered pedal, a klone, is in the middle of my chain after the fuzz section and the first of the OD/Dist pedals.

joeyowen

Yep, what he said.

Although vertex will tell you that you need one first and last in the chain, with the exception of a fuzz.

ICBM

siraxeman said:

Say you have 1 pedal at the end of a chain that is buffered...and half a dozen true bypass ones before it. Does that one at the end bump the signal right back up to its original level on its way out to your amp ?

No, it 'locks in' the signal it receives - but it removes the tone-sucking load of what is often the single biggest culprit - the long cable to the amp. This is the major problem with all-true-bypass setups - when all the pedals are off, the total length of cable from the guitar to the amp (which is all driven by the guitar pickups) is far greater than from the guitar to the pedals when one of the pedals is on.

Particularly for small pedalboards with only vintage-style pedals - the ones that often don't like buffers in front - putting the buffer at the end is a very good arrangement.

siraxeman

Well on my board I'm not sure..off the board (for space reasons) is my Crybaby 535Q > Hardwire Tuner > CS-2 > Double Trouble......then at the end is my DD-6 and RV-5 so in my case I guess I've got a buffer or 2 at either end of my chain ?

ICBM

Yes, all the Boss pedals are buffered. I think the 535Q is true bypass, although I can't remember for sure. (The original 535 is buffered.)

xwolf5150

I don't get this buffer business.
My only buffered pedal is my old CS-2 which is 3rd inline after my tuner and wah.
Do I need another buffer ?

Dave_Mc

^ Not unless you notice a problem with tone suck.

crunchman

I had real problems with tone suck when my only buffered pedal was a delay at the end of the chain.  Since then I've always run a buffered pedal early in the chain.

I've now got a clone of the Pete Cornish buffer that I built. I think it is a bit better than the one in a Tubescreamer but the TS or a Boss will get you 90% of the way there.

Majorscale

^^ This. My T-Rex Replica is buffered but last in the chain. The first time I realised how vital buffers are earlier on in the chain was during a gig...could not hear myself on stage, not noticable in the mix. Added a buffer earlier in the chain and welcome back treble and welcome back in the mix, it was like night and day! 

Most of my pedals are true bypass but I always have a few high quality buffers (or an always on pedal like a compressor or clean boost) in my chain now. For live work I really recommend the Empress Buffer + which combines two buffers and a boost. This pedals gets you a nice clean signal at the beginning and end of the pedal chain plus a volume/solo boost button when you just arent loud enough!

dindude

ICBM said:.

Particularly for small pedalboards with only vintage-style pedals - the ones that often don't like buffers in front - putting the buffer at the end is a very good arrangement.

I agree with this, I would say it works up to 6 pedals max as a general rule of thumb in my experiments. I try not to go more than 5 TB pedals without hitting a buffer. For larger set ups a buffer start and end, or (if you're running fuzzes and drives first) middle (after drives) and last would probably be better.

ecc83

The Irishman said "If oi were you sir, I wouldn't start from here".

Same for pedals and other add on devices. Had they all been built to general "studio interface" standards we would not be having this conversation...But they weren't and we are!

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

The Irishman said "If oi were you sir, I wouldn't start from here".

Same for pedals and other add on devices. Had they all been built to general "studio interface" standards we would not be having this conversation...But they weren't and we are!

Exactly, and it's usually the deficiencies which make them so interesting musically and often so frustrating to use!

DarnWeight

Majorscale said:

Most of my pedals are true bypass but I always have a few high quality buffers (or an always on pedal like a compressor or clean boost) in my chain now. For live work I really recommend the Empress Buffer + which combines two buffers and a boost. This pedals gets you a nice clean signal at the beginning and end of the pedal chain plus a volume/solo boost button when you just arent loud enough!

Spotted this on eBay from the Dr J Joyo-offshoot, which seems to be a cheaper version of the Empress...

No idea how well it works!