New guitar - intonation problems

nonesuch

Just got hold of a Reverend Charger, was planning on doing a NGD post, but am having a little trouble getting the intonation just right.

As you can see from the photo, I've just about got the lower strings as far forward as possible. In fact the A string saddle could do with moving a little bit further forward, but it's as far forward as its can go. I feel a bit surprised that I've had to move them so far forward - is this normal?

I've nearly always had guitars with Fender style bridges, so I'm really not used to tune-o-matic bridges.

I've just tried raising the bridge on the bass side, and that seems to have helped a bit, but I didn't really want to raise the action.

Cheesyfeet

What tuner are you using?

What's the nut like?  If strings are a bit high at the nut end, it can make a difference, as you need to move the string more to fret at the 12th.  Also, if it's not been cut correctly, it could be that the string is contacting towards the tuner end of the nut rather than the fretboard end.

If you have access to a good long steel rule, may be worth checking that the bridge is in the right place as well

nonesuch

Using a Boss TU-2. The nut slots are quite low, in fact I'd say they couldn't be any lower.

Jonathangus

The low E and A saddles look like they'll turn round (so the flat side faces the headstock), which will give a little more adjustment.

nonesuch

Yeah I was thinking that was a possibility, to reverse the saddles. Sorry for asking a daft question, but does the adjustment screw just unscrew all the way out and then you can flip the saddle? (without having to take the whole bridge off)

Cheesyfeet

They may have some sort of retaining clip type thing to stop the screws coming out.  Can't really see from the photo

nonesuch

Yes I think there is some kind of wire clip and I'm not sure how it works. I've spoken to the store I bought it from, and they need to have a look. It's a bit of a disappointing day, but there you go...

downbytheriver

This might be a stupid question but is that bridge the wrong way round? (Check the saddle slots)

Grangousier

I think if it was the other way round you couldn't get a screwdriver in to adjust the screws...

ICBM

The bridge is the right way round.

What strings are they? It seems to be a problem with the wound strings, since the plains intonate roughly where I'd expect.

nonesuch

It's new, so the strings are 'factory fresh'.

ICBM

nonesuch said:

It's new, so the strings are 'factory fresh'.

I would be inclined to try something that's a known quantity.

nonesuch

Me too. I've actually emailed Reverend and they replied very quickly, suggesting that I set all the saddles in the other direction, and put a new set of strings on and set it up again. (They think something could have moved slightly in transit over time.)

Not sure what screwing all the saddles back the other way will achieve, but it's worth a try I suppose. New strings might be more useful I'd imagine.

ICBM

nonesuch said:

Not sure what screwing all the saddles back the other way will achieve, but it's worth a try I suppose.

I wouldn't do that, I can't see why it would help anything - I would just set the saddles where they would normally be (D roughly parallel with the B, A with the G, E furthest back) and see where that gets you with a new set of well-known-brand strings.

If it was something that had moved in transit, why wouldn't it affect the plain strings? In any case, the only cause could be a shortening of the distance between the neck and the bridge, so either the bridge is leaning a long way forward (not really possible given those chunky posts) or the neck joint has shifted (even more unlikely!).

nonesuch

ICBM said:

 In any case, the only cause could be a shortening of the distance between the neck and the bridge, so either the bridge is leaning a long way forward (not really possible given those chunky posts) or the neck joint has shifted (even more unlikely!).

It's a bolt on neck if that makes any difference.

ICBM

nonesuch said:

It's a bolt on neck if that makes any difference.

Even so, it would have had to move past the end wall of the pocket - assuming it isn't like a cheap Japanese 1970s Gibson copy with no wall between the pocket and the neck pickup cavity!

Might possibly be worth a look under the pickguard though. If it's been dropped very heavily it's just possible it's broken the wood. This can happen on Telecasters...

nonesuch

Okay, well I've put some new strings on, and I was quite hopeful to begin with, but the saddles have ended up virtually where they were beforehand. The A string is still a tiny bit flat at furthest forward the saddle can go. 

So I'd say the A string saddle needs flipping over, but I'm still wondering why they are needing to be so far forward. It's as if the bridge is angled too far back, but I haven't got enough experiences with tune-o-matic bridges to know what's standard.

ICBM

That's close to normal, and might be that the bridge is just angled slightly more than usual.

I would definitely flip the A and probably the E saddles - if they were round the other way, the distribution of all six saddles would be roughly around the centreline of the bridge.

nonesuch

Haha, 'close to normal' is a good start maybe. Hope I can get this problem sorted, it's been a bit of a headache so far.

SteveRobinson

Yes, I'd flip the A and E, there's no reason for them to be reversed on this guitar.

It's quite tricky to release and refit the tiny circlips though without damaging them.

more

 Adjusting the bridge for Intonation is the last thing you do when setting up a guitar. I would start from the beginning. Just to recap. Check the neck is straight,   Adjust the truss rod if necessary.  Change strings.  Tune the guitar, open strings, Check action, in standard tuning you should have a gap at the 12 fret of 2mm on the low  E 1 1/2mm on the high E..  Test the first tuning open string, Play the harmonic ar 12 fret, it should still be in tune, and play the 12   fret,  fretted. You should be able to get the intonation right by adjusting the bridge. You might find, if the guitar is laying down, it will sound better in the playing position. There is a thing about the bridge you have, the back bar can be too low and the strings are resting on the back of the bridge, rather than sitting in the right place. It doesn't have an effect on the intonation but it has some effect on the tone.