JMP-1 / 1912 cleans not cutting it

dougfatheruk

Hi all,

I have the following:

JMP-1 > EL84 20/20 Poweramp > 2 x Marshall 1912 with stock GT12B-150 speakers.

It's a fairly new setup and I'm having trouble getting nice clean mids, they seem to sound muddy and boomy. I have to make the cleans brittle via the JMP-1 to get the high end to cut through, not nice.

By contrast I have a Blackstar HT5-R which doesn't cause me this issue.

I'm guessing the snag is the cabs/speakers, by all accounts they are heavily bass tuned, no problem with the gains but for clean it's not cutting it.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

ICBM

It's the speakers.

Try something like G12H-30s.

TheMarlin

The JMP1 EL8420/20 (or 50/50 or 100/100) are a classic combo, and should sound pretty damn good, clean or dirty.

What's the cab made of?  Particle board or finger joined pine?

I'd try V30's - they're excelent in a closed back cab..

Marlin

ICBM

The earliest 1912s are ply, later ones are MDF. For once I don't think it makes that much difference - the cab is small and ported, which I think makes the material less important. The G12B-150 is a very dull speaker though - it might even have been designed as a bass driver, I don't know... but the only time I've heard a 1912 with one sound good was when I used it as an ultra-portable bass rig with a Trace Elliot AH150 .

I like V30s a lot too, but I probably wouldn't pick one for the best clean sound with a 20W amp.

57Deluxe

/\ why not?? I run several lower powered amps through my external 1x12 V30 cab and it opens up the sound tremendously... and for ALL genres of music...

ICBM

I find them a bit grainy and middy for cleans. They don't have the deep, open bottom-end and clear sparkle I like. Although it is amp-dependent, they get closer with a big amp which can drive both ends of the range a bit harder.

Basically I just don't like mids that much . V30s sound good for cleans in the Trem-o-verb, but that amp has a huge, loose sound with a lot of bottom-end and top. Even then, for a clean sound I usually set the bass up full, mid off, treble and presence about 2-3 o'clock .

dougfatheruk

OK, so I need to make a decision here?

Sell the 1912's on and get a new cab or load them with new speakers. From the sound clips I've heard the V30's do sound like my sort of thing.

How about the size of the 1912, is this going to work against me regardless of what speakers are installed in them?

ICBM

To some extent, but they're ported which helps a lot.

dougfatheruk

I guess i don't want to throw good money after bad.

ICBM

You won't be - if you get the new speakers and the cabs still sound boxy, put the originals back, sell the cabs and get something else to put the V30s in.

fastboy

Before you buy anything new, you could try rolling off the bass on the JMP until the boominess disappears. 

As tempting as it is to run lots of bass in a mix, I tend to find live that my bass is usually on a maximum of 4 and the resonance on my head on 1 and I play hard rock and metal !!! Less is more. 

Just a thought that's all before you go and spend some money. 

Elx

Are you using the bass shift on your JMP-1 clean patch?

thecolourbox

What style are you playing? As in what style of clean playing are you going for? Ive recently bought a jmp1 and i find clean 2 (jangley one) with a warm od pedal on low in front (maybe an eq or mud hump drive?) helps make the cleans more interesting. Ive been using a soul food and a joyo sweet baby for this. I have the bass on very low though as i play through a hifi which has a bass woofer...

dougfatheruk

I think I'm getting closer with the clean 2, it's a bit jangly for my taste not too harsh. I'm gonna swap the speakers out or get a new cab as well, belt and braces.

ICBM

If you're looking for a single cab and V30s, you could do a lot worse than the Harley Benton G212 Vintage, which is basically the same price as two V30s. You could then try them in the 1912s and see which sound best...

dougfatheruk

Yeah, I saw that. It's even cheaper than buying two V30's plus I could rehouse the old speakers.

TheMarlin

Seriously, if you want the best tone possible, don't waste your money on a cheap cab.  The best cab I ever had was a closed back 2x12 bassman cab.  It was built in the UK by a boutique amp builder, finger joined solid pine, solid pine board back and baffle, which I loaded myself with lightly used V30's.   Sounded incredible.  I put my Bassman head through my friends MDF 2x12 cab (also with V30's), and it wasn't half as good.  Woofier in the low, and mushy tone by comparison.

It looked something like this (but had blonde tolex) .  

Keep an eye on ebay, they do turn up, and you'll get one for £250ish, or you have have one built for £350 ish.

yes, it's a lot more money, and you also need to fund speakers, but it's not crappy MDF/particle board, and it's not a low quality ply.  If you want the best tone possible, use the best gear you can.

Good luck

Marlin

 

ICBM

I agree with MDF being bad, but the HB cab is a proper ply one. It's stupidly cheap because it's made in China and supplied nearly direct (Thomann being the only middleman/distributor), not because it's low quality.

Pine is not always a good choice, it can be too resonant particularly for heavier tones. Particle-board *can* be OK, but it tends to have to be really heavy to be.

Cab dimensions and construction make a difference too, probably more than the material itself, although I don't disagree the material matters - some Marshall cabs are the best proof of that, because they made the same cabs (particularly the 1912s and the 1936 2x12"s) in both ply and MDF, and the ply ones sound better… but the difference is much bigger with the 1936.

Oddly enough MDF can be the best choice for hi-fi cabs, exactly because it has next to no resonance or tone!

TheMarlin

These are also highly regarded, and worth a look. Can be open or closed back too!

Marlin

ICBM

To be honest I wasn't that impressed with one I've seen inside, because the speakers were only held in with woodscrews instead of bolts and T-nuts, so they kept working loose. (The owner had unfortunately solved this problem with No More Nails!) Worse, getting the baffle out to fit T-nuts revealed that the grille was so poorly fitted that removing it and getting it back without damaging the cloth was going to be impossible, so I had to leave it.

Hopefully that was an earlier production one and they've been improved...