Buying a Les Paul with a broken headstock

ICBM

matone said:

Agreed,but it is still a badly damaged guitar that has been repaired ! You can dress it up anyway people like but it can`t be totally correct...ever.

Yes it can.

https://felineguitars.com/pages/judas-priest-les-paul-rebuild

Admittedly that's a lot more work than anyone would do to repair a first headstock break, but still... absolutely correct and better than it ever was when it left Gibson.

guitars4you

robdynamite said:

So I've been hunting for a custom for some time now and I've noticed one for sale that is brand new that had it's headstock broken (i'm guessing on it's journey to the retailers) and then repaired professionally with a hefty discount. Question is, would you pull the trigger and buy it or would you try and find a mint second hand example and pay a bit more?

just re-read this again and did not pick up on the fact that it is new - A rare event in many ways - If it was damaged between Gibson and the retailer, then it is Gibson's fault, so no need for the dealer to get involved - Gibson to just offer a replacement and claim on their insurance

If it happened in the dealers shop - An accident of some form - Then again I'd be claiming on my shop insurance policy - I might not get a full claim of 100%, but I'd get enough of a claim to cover any repair cost plus devaluation to sell as such 

I think in all my years behind the counter, I can't ever recall selling a new broken headstock guitar - Used yes but not new

Adey

guitars4you said:

robdynamite said:

So I've been hunting for a custom for some time now and I've noticed one for sale that is brand new that had it's headstock broken (i'm guessing on it's journey to the retailers) and then repaired professionally with a hefty discount. Question is, would you pull the trigger and buy it or would you try and find a mint second hand example and pay a bit more?

just re-read this again and did not pick up on the fact that it is new - A rare event in many ways - If it was damaged between Gibson and the retailer, then it is Gibson's fault, so no need for the dealer to get involved - Gibson to just offer a replacement and claim on their insurance

If it happened in the dealers shop - An accident of some form - Then again I'd be claiming on my shop insurance policy - I might not get a full claim of 100%, but I'd get enough of a claim to cover any repair cost plus devaluation to sell as such 

I think in all my years behind the counter, I can't ever recall selling a new broken headstock guitar - Used yes but not new

I suppose it would also depend upon the shops excess on its insurance policy. It might not be worth putting in the claim.

abw1989

My most played guitar is Burny LP Custom with a headstock break. It annoyed me at first because it wasn't disclosed on the advert when I bought it but now it just doesn't register. I had a guitar tech look over it and structurally it's fine although the finish could be better. It holds tune perfectly well and from first glance you couldn't tell, it's an 80s guitar any way so a few dings here and there.

If the one you are looking at has been well finished and the discount is decent just go for it.

boogieman

My SG had a headstock break. It’s been fixed properly and the break has never shifted in over 10 years. I’ve had it refinished (not to hide the break I should add, the whole guitar was repainted) and you’d never guess it was damaged. It’s my favourite guitar and plays beautifully. 

thermionic

It’s not always true that a repaired neck makes a guitar stronger. James Dean Bradfield’s iconic white Les Paul Custom suffered a second neck break after the first one had been repaired. And it then broke a third time. Maybe he had them repaired by clueless amateurs, but I think that’s unlikely.

WezV

thermionic said:

It’s not always true that a repaired neck makes a guitar stronger. James Dean Bradfield’s iconic white Les Paul Custom suffered a second neck break after the first one had been repaired. And it then broke a third time. Maybe he had them repaired by clueless amateurs, but I think that’s unlikely.

depends if it broke at the same point, or next to the original break.

If its next to, then its likely down to the wood grain in that area and not the quality of the repair.   In some cases, especially with a solid finish, you cannot judge that until it breaks again.   Shame more wasn't done to prevent it before the 3rd break

andy_k

A headstock break happens across the weakest point, usually.
A repair just makes the next impact find the next weakest point, glue is stronger than wood (if done correctly)
Plenty of guitars survive the breaks, and go on to make great music, Slash's standard and Greeny are 2 of the obvious ones.
We are talking about the financial devaluation of a repaired instrument here, not the integrity of a repair.

guitars4you

Adey said:

guitars4you said:

robdynamite said:

So I've been hunting for a custom for some time now and I've noticed one for sale that is brand new that had it's headstock broken (i'm guessing on it's journey to the retailers) and then repaired professionally with a hefty discount. Question is, would you pull the trigger and buy it or would you try and find a mint second hand example and pay a bit more?

just re-read this again and did not pick up on the fact that it is new - A rare event in many ways - If it was damaged between Gibson and the retailer, then it is Gibson's fault, so no need for the dealer to get involved - Gibson to just offer a replacement and claim on their insurance

If it happened in the dealers shop - An accident of some form - Then again I'd be claiming on my shop insurance policy - I might not get a full claim of 100%, but I'd get enough of a claim to cover any repair cost plus devaluation to sell as such 

I think in all my years behind the counter, I can't ever recall selling a new broken headstock guitar - Used yes but not new

I suppose it would also depend upon the shops excess on its insurance policy. It might not be worth putting in the claim.

I would expect most policies to have a £100-£250 excess - The claim would be based on around £400-600 to repair + refin the appropriate area and on a £6 grand guitar now worth say £4K then a £2K depreciation - So effectively a £2500 ish claim 

boogieman

Surprised the repairer didn’t put in carbon or hardwood splints after the second repair. A decent repairer should’ve recognised it’s either a weak spot on the neck or JDB throws it around too vigorously. 

WezV

boogieman said:

Surprised the repairer didn’t put in carbon or hardwood splints after the second repair. A decent repairer should’ve recognised it’s either a weak spot on the neck or JDB throws it around too vigorously. 

We don't know what situation they were working with.   A quick fix whilst on tour might have led to corners being cut

roberty

I got a used LP Custom 57RI with a headstock break repair. You can't hear the glue and the repair is almost invisible. I got over my fear of headstock repairs after repairing a Vintage V100 copy at home.  My view is there is less value to destroy through modding, especially on a custom shop

boogieman

WezV said:

boogieman said:

Surprised the repairer didn’t put in carbon or hardwood splints after the second repair. A decent repairer should’ve recognised it’s either a weak spot on the neck or JDB throws it around too vigorously. 

We don't know what situation they were working with.   A quick fix whilst on tour might have led to corners being cut

Oh yeah, I hadn’t considered that. Presumably he has a back up (or several) though? So he could have taken it out of service to be fixed properly, but I suppose if it’s his number one he’d just want it back ASAP. 

danishbacon

How does the price of the repaired one from the shop compare to a clean used one equivalent without a break?

ICBM

thermionic said:

It’s not always true that a repaired neck makes a guitar stronger. James Dean Bradfield’s iconic white Les Paul Custom suffered a second neck break after the first one had been repaired. And it then broke a third time. Maybe he had them repaired by clueless amateurs, but I think that’s unlikely.

Perhaps not clueless, but also possibly not a really proper job with inlaid splints. And it may have been put through enough stress to break almost anything, touring instruments can really suffer - it could have been stronger and still been broken again.

Read the Feline post about the Judas Priest one for a similar story.

Strangefan

The only concern I would have is is the repair a good one,   if it is game on ,IMO collectors are the only ones who should be worried about a break.

Offset

ICBM said:

matone said:

Agreed,but it is still a badly damaged guitar that has been repaired ! You can dress it up anyway people like but it can`t be totally correct...ever.

Yes it can.

https://felineguitars.com/pages/judas-priest-les-paul-rebuild

Admittedly that's a lot more work than anyone would do to repair a first headstock break, but still... absolutely correct and better than it ever was when it left Gibson.

That is an absolute work of genius, and a fascinating insight into the repair process.  Jon and team are true craftspeople in every sense.

dazzajl

matone said:

Sassafras said:

If the repair's well done, it can be stronger than the unbroken headstock.
I'd want to see it though.

Agreed,but it is still a badly damaged guitar that has been repaired ! You can dress it up anyway people like but it can`t be totally correct...ever.

I’m still not understanding this. I have a guitar with a neck repair, happens to be one of the best cosmetic repairs I’ve ever seen but that doesn’t actually make any difference to me. 

I don’t see how it’s not totally correct or right? Every measurement and specification is 100% on and unplugged it sings loudly with the most crisp and full tone. It could well be that it sounds better to me than it would have done before the break and repair? 

WezV

matone said:

Sassafras said:

If the repair's well done, it can be stronger than the unbroken headstock.
I'd want to see it though.

Agreed,but it is still a badly damaged guitar that has been repaired ! You can dress it up anyway people like but it can`t be totally correct...ever.

one of my recent repairs broke because it left the factory wrong, with far too much wood removed from behind the truss rod.  I corrected the factory error by backstrapping and adding much needed thickness to the weak area




I had to go a little darker to get a finish blend I was happy with, but I would argue this is a lot more "correct" than the stupidly carved transition it left the factory with



the owner accepts its worth less than a pristine example, but happy he has a guitar he can reliably gig with 

guitars4you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ looks like a professional repair job and should prevent no stability issue to any owner in the future