What's the next 'big thing' in FX/Modellers?

sjo89

A bit of a fun, hypothetical (perhaps) thread, but what do you guys think the next 'big thing' in the wonderful world of FX is gonna be?

I think its fair to say the Quad Cortex was said product, but turned out to be a bit underwhelming it seems?

Just to say these can be real products you know are coming out as well as your 'dream' product, that might not necessarily exist (within reason).

For me, I'd be really keen to see Strymon step into the world of all-in-one units, with some sort of multi-fx modeller that combines all their pedals and the Iridium into one unit.

I also think the HX Stomp 2 will be amazing.

And when oh when are Kemper gonna release the next gen Kemper? Imagine a Kemper floor unit with inbuilt power amp for example.

monquixote

I don't think the quad cortex was underwhelming so much as amp modelling has been basically solved now other than the physical experience in the room which you aren't going to solve with any FRFR solution because of physics.

Given people can't tell the difference between a kemper and the real thing there wasn't really much better to get.

I imagine the future is more things like the Tone Master DR and IR DIs being standard on most amps.

sjo89

monquixote said:

I don't think the quad cortex was underwhelming so much as amp modelling has been basically solved now other than the physical experience in the room which you aren't going to solve with any FRFR solution because of physics.

Given people can't tell the difference between a kemper and the real thing there wasn't really much better to get.

I imagine the future is more things like the Tone Master DR and IR DIs being standard on most amps.

I think the Quad Cortex was disappointing to some in the sense that in terms of inbuilt fx and amps etc. it was woefully lacking compared to helix, axe fx, kemper etc.

monquixote

sjo89 said:

monquixote said:

I don't think the quad cortex was underwhelming so much as amp modelling has been basically solved now other than the physical experience in the room which you aren't going to solve with any FRFR solution because of physics.

Given people can't tell the difference between a kemper and the real thing there wasn't really much better to get.

I imagine the future is more things like the Tone Master DR and IR DIs being standard on most amps.

I think the Quad Cortex was disappointing to some in the sense that in terms of inbuilt fx and amps etc. it was woefully lacking compared to helix, axe fx, kemper etc.

I think complaining about that, or expecting anything different would be completely unrealistic.

The Helix and Kemper have a boatload of updates and have been out for years.

Flash v1 firmware on each unit and compare them.

sjo89

monquixote said:

sjo89 said:

monquixote said:

I don't think the quad cortex was underwhelming so much as amp modelling has been basically solved now other than the physical experience in the room which you aren't going to solve with any FRFR solution because of physics.

Given people can't tell the difference between a kemper and the real thing there wasn't really much better to get.

I imagine the future is more things like the Tone Master DR and IR DIs being standard on most amps.

I think the Quad Cortex was disappointing to some in the sense that in terms of inbuilt fx and amps etc. it was woefully lacking compared to helix, axe fx, kemper etc.

I think complaining about that, or expecting anything different would be completely unrealistic.

The Helix and Kemper have a boatload of updates and have been out for years.

Flash v1 firmware on each unit and compare them.

Well yes and no - there was a tonne of hype around the quad cortex (which theyd paid for) and they knew they were releasing a product in direct competition with Kemper and Helix etc. and at the same price point, so it needed to be something really special and based on a lot of youtube videos released fairly recently, a lot of folks are underwhelmed. Not my opinions. I dont own one!

Roland

monquixote said:

... amp modelling has been basically solved now other than the physical experience in the room which you aren't going to solve with any FRFR solution because of physics... 

Where FX and modellers go from here is difficult to foresee. There will be further improvements in amp modelling, but with diminishing returns. We’re already at the point where few people can tell the difference, and even fewer care. 

There is a market for packaging up more complex effects. I’m not thinking of grouping existing pedals onto one box. It’s more that many people don’t know how, or haven’t got the time, to configure complex effects. That’s especially true where a sound needs several effects acting together. For the home user we could see people selling preset packs that give the range of effects used on a particular album.

The current step forward, certainly as far as Fractal Audio is concerned, is IRs which include actual room reflections, rather than algorithmic reverbs. That, and resonances in the 80 to 200 Hz band, give much more of an amp-in-the-room sensation. The extra processing power needed for longer IRs will persuade some Fractal users to upgrade, buying more equipment, and providing more AxeFX IIs and FM3s to the second hand market.

JohnCordy

@monquixote ; I actually did that 

sjo89

JohnCordy said:

@monquixote ; I actually did that 

I think Helix probably was the most recent gamechanger. At the time, the Axe FX was (is) too expensive, complex and difficult to acquire in the grand scheme of things - whereas any guitarist can go into their local guitar store and pick up a helix and easily understand it. And it set the president for all that followed.

The fact that "ive gone helix" became a regularly heard phrase with guitarists selling their amps says it all!

JohnCordy

@sjo89 and the quad cortex lifted chunks of the user interface wholesale, which was interesting...
I think we don't know what the next generation will look like till we see it.

The cloud stuff was really the only thing that the quad cortex is doing that is new, aside from that, capturing, touch screens etc have all been done elsewhere.

sjo89

JohnCordy said:

@sjo89 and the quad cortex lifted chunks of the user interface wholesale, which was interesting...
I think we don't know what the next generation will look like till we see it.

The cloud stuff was really the only thing that the quad cortex is doing that is new, aside from that, capturing, touch screens etc have all been done elsewhere.

what FX pedal would you like to see come out next John?

Beexter

I think there's scope to mix profiling and modelling in a single unit. Being able to profile your own pedals/ amps or choose a model would move things on, as would seamless preset switching. Modelling is generally very good now and Kemper profiling seems to satisfy some pretty high profile players - I've never personally tried a Kemper but the fact that they haven't felt the need to update the hardware for such a long time suggests their profiling technology is not hampered by hardware. Of course,  a more powerful processor would improve load times.
I'd also like to see some more developments in lightweight amplification options along the lines of the Powercab, Redsound etc that help with a more satisfying "in the room " experience. 

sjo89

Beexter said:

I think there's scope to mix profiling and modelling in a single unit. Being able to profile your own pedals/ amps or choose a model would move things on, as would seamless preset switching. Modelling is generally very good now and Kemper profiling seems to satisfy some pretty high profile players - I've never personally tried a Kemper but the fact that they haven't felt the need to update the hardware for such a long time suggests their profiling technology is not hampered by hardware. Of course,  a more powerful processor would improve load times.
I'd also like to see some more developments in amplification options along the lines of the Powercab, Redsound etc that help with a more satisfying "in the room " experience. 

For sure. I think a great sounding, light guitar cab, with options to turn on or off things like a power amp, DI cab sims, maybe even speaker emulations etc. Would be many guitarists dream product. Some sort of analog/digital hybrid perhaps?

The Tone Master series is killing it for Fender so hopefully that sets a trend for other companies to follow.

PolarityMan

I want my guitar to sound like serum. 

Jonathanthomas83

Look at the vast array of very cool pedals around these days. Microcosm, mood, night sky, generation loss and many others. You may not like or care about those pedals, but that's where modelling needs to catch up, in my eyes.

Their current focus is on the bread and butter rather than pushing the boundaries like these weird and wonderful things.

allen

I don't think it will really happen, but I would like things to improve in terms of user interface and ease of use.

I've come to think lately that being able to do knobs with labels on is a very good thing. Boss ME-80

And then somehow to make it small enough to be really convenient to move around and set up. About same size as TC plethora.

And then put a lithium rechargeable battery in it.

Then add wireless to your amp and your guitar (obviously zero latency)

Not sure about a big screen to see your settings easily.

Obviously I have no idea how to design something that ticks all those boxes. Apart from sticking together all of the boss 200 series pedals with gaffer tape and then applying a shrink ray, then sellotaping a battery underneath and then buying 2 lots of Boss wl-20 wireless dongles.

I am applying for a patent so if Boss releases this in future you saw it here first and I'll be a millionaire!

Jez6345789

I think the next level will come from Kemper
they are currently using older processors and a hardware update should fix that and allow many improvements.

I suddenly got the itch for a quad and considered selling the keeper but after digging in beyond the hype it seems the metal guys are the most vocal about it. So decided to hold out till Kemper are ready.

I do think there are companies that are good technically but poor sonically in the modelling world and it’s probably a bit of a black art designing digital systems that do a good job of giving us a digital representation of some piece of 50’s or 60’s very analog technology.

for me currently Kemper is more than enough and the HX stomp fills in when I want something different..

ThePrettyDamned

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Look at the vast array of very cool pedals around these days. Microcosm, mood, night sky, generation loss and many others. You may not like or care about those pedals, but that's where modelling needs to catch up, in my eyes.

Their current focus is on the bread and butter rather than pushing the boundaries like these weird and wonderful things.

Yesh I agree with this basically (although I don't know those effects!). More weird synthy stuff - I'd love for the digitech bass synth wah to be properly modeled. 

For amps this has already sort of happened. Some modern tones might be very challenging to get from an amp and were always intended to be digital. 

digitalscream

Where I'm at with this is...my setup is Stomp -> Powerstage 170 -> guitar cab. When you get it up to the same levels that you'd run a valve amp, it's basically indistinguishable from the real thing with the sounds I use.

When it's run at less than that volume, the experience is just as underwhelming as a valve amp (no BOOM!).

So...they've recreated the exact same experience for me, sonically. Ideally, the next step would be to improve on it.

Of course, in the real world, they've improved on the overall experience by default, because a modeller is always vastly better in terms of usability and the quality-of-life stuff that 99.9% of the time you just don't get with valve amps without masses of expenditure (or at all in some cases). Patches, snapshots/scenes, routing, weight, reliability, lack of maintenance etc etc.

I don't think there's going to be a "next big thing" revolution, because it's already happened. Fractal brought modelling to the serious crowd, Kemper let you create your own "models", and Line 6 brought it to a reasonable price point.

The only thing I can think of is complete (and accurate) realtime component modelling, such that you could literally design your own amp from the ground up. While the market for that would be pretty small on the face of it, it would be more of a platform than a modeller - you could build a whole ecosystem around it. Open source amps!

Danny1969

I would like split processing but that needs a new guitar pickup too and a 3 conductor cable. Basically I want to be able to play with one patch on the bottom 2 strings and one patch on the other 4. I was playing around with a guitar synth last night which could kind of do this, opens up a lot of options when using the guitar as a solo instrument. 

Musicwolf

Live or in the studio, I'm pretty much 100% in the digital domain. Or at least I would be if I didn't have to reconvert in order to go from one digital unit to another.  My live set up is guitar into Helix, with a Boss SY-300 in one of the fx loops, into a digital mixer.  My vocals go into a TC VoiceLive 2 then to the mixer and there is an analogue send from the Helix to the VoiceLive (so that the VoiceLive knows the key / chord).

Once digitised everything comes down to algorithms and processing power.  I can see a future, not too far away, where I’ll just need to take my multi input interface (such as my Behringer XR-18) and my laptop.  Everything will be native.

maharg101

Much smaller hardware units with a web interface. Literally just the patch selection on foot switches. Plug in expression pedals as required over USB (have as many as you want). Bank / song selection and configuration via a web interface, which could be on a laptop / tablet. Multi unit ability to enable simultaneous control of another unit in the FX loop of a real amp if so desired.