Snare Mic Recommendations

AntonHunter

Hi all,

I tend to record bands live-in-the-room, almost always improvised things, on the more avant-garde end of jazz. I've been using four channels for the drums, using the Glyn Johns method with two large diaphragm condensors (usually AT3035), a cheap kick mic and, up to now, an SM57 on the snare.

I'd like to upgrade that snare mic to something that gives a little more detail/nuance, I borrowed a Beyer M201 for a session and that seemed to be an improvement, so was thinking of the same, but thought I'd check what you all thought? Is there something I'm missing? I was assuming dynamic because of the spl close to the drum, but does anyone use a condenser for this?

Danny1969

I always found the sound of the snare is actually generated about 8 inches above the skin so was never that fond of a dynamic close to the drum. It was fine for live but I tried to get most of snare from the overheads. When I couldn't do that because the drummer wasn't hitting with the right cymbals to skins ratio I used a Senn E945. Mainly because the hi hat bleed in this mic sounded less irritating than the bleed in a 57. Other mics with a less pronounced upper mid hump and an extended hi frequency response should do the same thing I would have thought

Cirrus

For the same price, the Audix i5 has a more open top end and less low mids. Seems faster on the transients too.

AntonHunter

Thanks both, already some good avenues to follow. I'll get my headphones on and start listening to some shootouts I think.

robinbowes

You could consider using two mics on the snare - one top, one bottom. Otherwise, the M201 is a sound choice.

AntonHunter

robinbowes said:

You could consider using two mics on the snare - one top, one bottom. Otherwise, the M201 is a sound choice.

Yeah, that would be a good shout, but I'm usually constrained to 8 or 10 channels, and depending on the size of the group, they get filled up pretty quickly. What would you use for top and bottom? SM57?

robinbowes

If you have a couple of '57s, try them. If not, get hold of an M201. What's the channel limitation - your interface?

kennedydream1980

Audix I5. It’s a great all rounder to be fair. I love it on guitar cabs as well.

AntonHunter

robinbowes said:

If you have a couple of '57s, try them. If not, get hold of an M201. What's the channel limitation - your interface?

Yeah, Focusrite Pro40 with 8 ins, sometimes adding 2 channels from my zoomU44 via spdif. With stereo room mics, two on guitar amp, mic+DI on double bass, that's only four left for drums. More tricky when adding horn players too. It's always some level of compromise, so just looking at how I can improve what I can.

To add to that, the drummer I record most often never likes the sound of mic'd snare, preferring just the sound of the two overheads plus kick. Rather than listening to him though and not tracking it, I want to improve the sound of it. Plus it's almost always useful in mixes a bit.

Oh, and GAS, of course.

John_P

I use an m201 for this and prefer a beta 57 over the sm57.   Ideally I use two mics with the beyer on top and a 57 on the bottom.  Apologies if I'm stating the obvious but it's worth some time checking where the mic is pointing - I generally prefer a little more height and aimed towards the centre of the head. 

robinbowes

AntonHunter said:

robinbowes said:

If you have a couple of '57s, try them. If not, get hold of an M201. What's the channel limitation - your interface?

Yeah, Focusrite Pro40 with 8 ins, sometimes adding 2 channels from my zoomU44 via spdif. With stereo room mics, two on guitar amp, mic+DI on double bass, that's only four left for drums. More tricky when adding horn players too. It's always some level of compromise, so just looking at how I can improve what I can.

To add to that, the drummer I record most often never likes the sound of mic'd snare, preferring just the sound of the two overheads plus kick. Rather than listening to him though and not tracking it, I want to improve the sound of it. Plus it's almost always useful in mixes a bit.

Oh, and GAS, of course.

Perhaps consider an interface with more inputs? Or another Pro40?

AntonHunter

Not at all @John_P, I often miss the obvious.. I think I'm generally positioning it like you say, although could use more height, will give it a go next time.

robinbowes

AntonHunter said:

To add to that, the drummer I record most often never likes the sound of mic'd snare, preferring just the sound of the two overheads plus kick. 

I can relate to that.

I run 32 channels live, and mic up the kit with stereo overheads and all drums close-mic'd. Often, the sound from the overheads, with a bit of kick is all I need. I usually do something nice with the snare though and blend a little in to the mix.

Point is, if you've not recorded it, you can't use it. Get more channels, record it all, then you can play with it at mix down.

R.

Winny_Pooh

Jazz with brushes is often miced by pros with a KM84. Try an SE Electronixs SE-3 Se-4 for a budget alternative.

An m201 with it's tight pattern is useful for rejecting hi hat but not as crisp as an audix i5. 

If you want bright and detailed a heil pr22 is the brightest dynamic I've tried. 

octatonic

It depends on the snare, the room, the song, the player.

All the usual options 57's, m201's , i5's etc.
I really like the Josephson E22 and C42 too.

Macca_25387

SE V7x is my current choice. Caught Greg Wells using one in video so i went for one. Much prefer it to a 57 i was previously using and the rejection is excellent. 

AntonHunter

Lots to digest here, the GAS is strong now. I'll keep an eye out for a secondhand focusrite OctoPre maybe too, to expand my Pro40.

Thanks all!

Stuckfast

I like condenser mics on snare -- KM84 or Sony C36p are my favourites but I'm sure there are modern ones that will work as well. Just be sure it can take a decent level and isn't too sensitive, otherwise it will overload the preamps. Note that some of the OctoPre models aren't ideal for drums as they can't take very hot levels.

AntonHunter

Thanks @Stuckfast, I didn't even know there were different OctoPre models. The dynamics one looks interesting, that's stoking the GAS for sure. 

I wondered if you could say a bit more about having enough headroom? What counts "very hot" for an interface? 

Stuckfast

There have been a few different OctoPre variants over the years. Not all of them have pads on the inputs. For drums you definitely want to get one of the versions that does. That allows you to knock the input level down by a further 10 or 15 dB or so before it hits the preamp, so there's less chance of overloading the converters.

The important specification here is maximum input level. For example the current OctoPre lists +16dBu with the pad, whereas the Audient ASP880 is specced at +32dBu. That means you can feed the ASP a much hotter signal than the OctoPre before it overloads.

AntonHunter

Thanks!