Tascam Model 12, or Zoom Livetrack L12?

menamestom

Our rehearsal room are looking at a live recorder solution to record either in the studio or on location, without using a PC.

We need a desk for gigs anyway so would be good to have the option to record without getting into bringing laptops etc.

So I'm looking at these 2 units.  Has anybody tried / used either? 

Stratavarious

We use a Soundcraft Ui24r.. direct record to USB stick is flawless, easy and results in excellent stems.  Wireless control from devices, personal monitor mixes, wander around room to mix at soundcheck, save setting for each venue/lineup

Best option.  Behringer do a slighly cheaper X18 thing.  Step beyond desks if wanting to do both rehearsal and live recording. 

How many in band, how many monitor mixes you need?  We got up to 8 IEMS/monitors. Previous desk had 3.

Musicwolf

I used to have a Zoom LiveTrak L-12.  I used it exactly as you are proposing to run live sound and to record practice / gigs.

Pros

All in one (no laptop)

5  x aux bus for monitor mixes (and built in headphone amps if required)

Physical faders

Some nice record / save features which made life very easy if you were trying to capture stuff whilst also playing as part of the band

8 mic inputs plus a couple of stereo line pairs

Cons

No motorised faders (not surprising at the price)

It's very easy to get a bit lost when under pressure and find yourself wondering why nothing's happening to the FOH mix whilst pushing the fader up only to realise that you're changing someone's monitor mix.

Ultimately I sold mine when I got a Behringer XR18 which was much more capable but which, of course, requires a laptop.

menamestom

Stratavarious said:

We use a Soundcraft Ui24r.. direct record to USB stick is flawless, easy and results in excellent stems.  Wireless control from devices, personal monitor mixes, wander around room to mix at soundcheck, save setting for each venue/lineup

Best option.  Behringer do a slighly cheaper X18 thing.  Step beyond desks if wanting to do both rehearsal and live recording. 

How many in band, how many monitor mixes you need?  We got up to 8 IEMS/monitors. Previous desk had 3.

No set number of people really but we’ll probably monitor with a PA, with just one mix.  We don't use In ear monitors and we want to keep it simple with basically the sound in the room.  The inspiration was the Beatles doc and the days we used to record onto tape multi trackers.  

Musicwolf said:

I used to have a Zoom LiveTrak L-12.  I used it exactly as you are proposing to run live sound and to record practice / gigs.

Pros

All in one (no laptop)

5  x aux bus for monitor mixes (and built in headphone amps if required)

Physical faders

Some nice record / save features which made life very easy if you were trying to capture stuff whilst also playing as part of the band

8 mic inputs plus a couple of stereo line pairs

Cons

No motorised faders (not surprising at the price)

It's very easy to get a bit lost when under pressure and find yourself wondering why nothing's happening to the FOH mix whilst pushing the fader up only to realise that you're changing someone's monitor mix.

Ultimately I sold mine when I got a Behringer XR18 which was much more capable but which, of course, requires a laptop.

Thanks.  How did the Zoom sound, were the pre’s reasonable quality?

I’ve heard they can be a bit frustrating live, to that end the Tascam looks a bit simpler with more dedicated knobs for e.q. and main/sub mix etc plus solo.  

I looked at the Behringer and have read elswhere of the advantages, but just not sure I want to bring a laptop and or ipad everywhere.  Once the laptop opens things tend to slow down a bit so I’m thinking keeping the recording separate from the DAW might bring about a new workflow.

Musicwolf

menamestom said:

Thanks.  How did the Zoom sound, were the pre’s reasonable quality?

I didn't have any complaints about the pre's.  When you're recording in a practice room setting then preamp quality is probably quite a way down the list of things that will influence the quality of the recording anyway. You usually have a room with inadequate acoustic treatment and without a decent monitoring system for starters.

I managed to make some half decent recordings this way.  With the Zoom it is also very easy to import the wav files into the DAW of your choice for editing and processing.

andy_k

I'd prefer the old simplicity of he Tascam over the Zoom if I were upgrading my current Zoom R16, and find it hard to justify going up to the R24, which just looks better quality.
R16 is hard to beat for features and flexibility, even now.
I do like the idea of the Tascam now, as a better quality machine.

menamestom

Musicwolf said:

menamestom said:

Thanks.  How did the Zoom sound, were the pre’s reasonable quality?

I didn't have any complaints about the pre's.  When you're recording in a practice room setting then preamp quality is probably quite a way down the list of things that will influence the quality of the recording anyway. You usually have a room with inadequate acoustic treatment and without a decent monitoring system for starters.

I managed to make some half decent recordings this way.  With the Zoom it is also very easy to import the wav files into the DAW of your choice for editing and processing.

It’s probably a less relevant question about preamps nowadays, but I remember years ago going from one of the early Tascam digital recorders to a Fostex (because the Tascam was glitching) and the sound quality was way worse on the Fostex.   The preamps had a horrible attack to them.  The Tascam by comparison sounded really punchy.

I’ve also had interfaces which have had noise issues and lacklustre preamps.  Thankfully most units today have quiet, clean and unobtrusive sound signatures. 

But always worth checking!

Acoustics can kill a recording but if the room sounds good I do like a bit of natural room sound.  I’m trying to get away from really dry source recording, so a bit of natural ambience is often welcome, even if it doesn’t sound like an Abbey Road live room…..

Stratavarious

I also use a Tascam DP32SD. The Tascam sound is certainly pristine.  I would have easily gone for the mixer version if it was out at the time.  Can’t comment on the Zoom.

I’d not hesitate now for your scenario for a basic live/rehearsal desk with on board recording of sessions. They have a nice niche there.

crosstownvamp

We have an L12 as an upgrade from a Zoom R24. (I don't believe R24 is any better than R16 apart from more phantom power.) We copy the wavs onto computers for mixing. The individual headphone mixes out of the L12 are great, we're a living room band so if it gets late we can carry on with headphones if the mood is there.

L12 is a big step up from the R24 in terms of robustness - hard to tell on preamps but seems a touch more presence.

Our various laptops are pressed into service for drum machine and sample banks so it would be more of a faff with one of them dedicated to recording. It's bad enough getting everything set up as it is!

Stuckfast

I had a Zoom R16 for many years and now have a Zoom L20 which is the L12's bigger brother. The L20 has really good preamps (I believe they are the same as those in the F8 field recorder) with pads on most of the channels, which is very useful for recording drums. The R16 never sounded all that great to my ears.

newi123

I have an L12 and also considered the Tascam. Like you this was for a combination of live recording and then also using as a live desk.

The Tascam really appealed due to the old school layout, but I went for the Zoom - mainly because in a live environment you can run upto 5 different monitor mixes. The Tascam is more limited in that respect.

The Zoom also works fine for tracking once you`ve got your head around their process, and I find the mic pres sound fine.

menamestom

So, ended up getting the L12.  It was quite a bit cheaper than the Tascam and the extra channels and headphone inputs swung it.  Also, I had a quick read of the manuals and the Tascam seemed a bit less intuitive.

Have connected up to my ipad in class compliance mode and also to Cubase with a driver and both work straight away as expected. 

Looking forward to some live recording sessions, I have been input limited for a while.

crosstownvamp

The flashing LEDs on the start up sequence are fun!

I remember there's a little switch on the back  that it took us an hour or two of increasing gnashing of teeth, frantic emails to Zoom and a near fatal falling out, to discover was in the wrong position.