The 2 note test - I've just graduated from unconscious-incompetence to conscious-incompetence..

AK99

It's just dawned on me why I still sound sh1te on pieces I know - despite far too many years trying to get better.

Discovered I can't even play two notes with the same level of technique and musicality as the really good guys. I've watched a few of the tutorials from the chap below over the years, and found him good on general tips around finger flexibility and speed. Good stuff if you aspire to be a shredder.

Came across a snippet partway through this video at the 0:50 mark, (lasts under a minute from there) where he makes the point that even if you only listen to just a couple of notes from a guitarist - the way they manage, volume, vibratro, length of the note - and the way the note decays over time,  it's usually enough to tell how skilled the player is, or whether he may be one of the greats.



I spent about an hour this evening working on one and two note vibrato and sustain exercises - trying to match extracts from some classic guitar solos, and realised just how much there is in it.

I also know for sure now why nobody will ever going to mistake any of my efforts - ever - for anything by Peter Green or Angus Young, no matter how similar the notes played may be  

digitalscream

Yes, it all comes down to one word: "control". Specifically, control over your instrument, over the strings, over your hands...and it's something that everybody completely ignores when they're a teenager trying to shred.

Ironically, the vibrato from the chap in the video is...not particularly well controlled, IMO. It's kind of jerky - the bend/up part of the vibrato is faster than the release, which makes it sound kind of twitchy (to me, at least).

A good exercise is to try to play vibrato as a series of even bends in time with the music, slowly at first (so it sounds like a series of consecutive bends), then gradually raising the tempo and varying the width of it. Then do it on an already-bent note (lots of people have trouble with this, which baffles me).

Those are easy wins, which will instantly make you sound vastly more "pro" than most of the players you'll see playing in pubs and clubs on a Friday night.

merlin

God of gain. And God of stress. He needs to take a chill pill. 

AK99

digitalscream said:

A good exercise is to try to play vibrato as a series of even bends in time with the music, slowly at first (so it sounds like a series of consecutive bends), then gradually raising the tempo and varying the width of it. Then do it on an already-bent note (lots of people have trouble with this, which baffles me).

@digitalscream - I don't know if you know of the solo from You Shook Me All Night Long by the aforementioned A.Young, but there is a full tone bend at the 18th fret on the B string from from the F to G, with his signature vibrato - which I find impossible to replicate.

I have enough finger strength to do the bend, but find when I try to add the vibrato, with whatever I'm doing the note just dies. Any tips - things I could work on to keep the note ringing ?

personalnadir

For me it’s more about timing. What I hear when i
listen to mine or another amateur player’s note is the lack of control about timing. There’s that subconscious hesitancy that for me gives the game away. 

Rocker

Don't fret about how 'good' a player you are, if you enjoy the sounds you make, there is no problem.  And no need for anxiety.

BillDL

AK99 said:

.... the solo from You Shook Me All Night Long by the aforementioned A.Young, but there is a full tone bend at the 18th fret on the B string from from the F to G, with his signature vibrato - which I find impossible to replicate.

I have enough finger strength to do the bend, but find when I try to add the vibrato, with whatever I'm doing the note just dies. Any tips - things I could work on to keep the note ringing ?

The vibrato that Angus applies to that bent note isn't really what you would call "controlled" in terms of the song tempo, as you would find very noticeable from a similarly accomplished player in a much slower song, but it is nonetheless bang on and that bend would be dead without it.  For a bend and fairly fast and hard vibrato like that I tend to relax my thumb a bit on the neck and actually push or squeeze and release the neck rather than clamping my hand rigidly on the neck and trying to maintain the bend and apply vibrato with only the ring finger in isolation (and other fingers behind for support).  Damn, this is hard to describe.  It's not really a "shake" as such ... no, actually it is a bit of a shake.  Obviously you need enough opposing pressure from the top of the neck for you to squeeze the string up in pitch, but the weight of the guitar neck can be used to offset this and allow you to loosen your thumb grasp and move the neck up and down rather than doing all the work with the fretting finger(s).  This is obviously only how I would do it.  Others will have different techniques, and additionally if I needed slower vibrato this method wouldn't work.

Am I mistaken or did the guy in the video mention "intangible elements" more than once

AK99

BillDL said:

...  For a bend and fairly fast and hard vibrato like that I tend to relax my thumb a bit on the neck and actually push or squeeze and release the neck rather than clamping my hand rigidly on the neck and trying to maintain the bend and apply vibrato with only the ring finger in isolation (and other fingers behind for support).  Damn, this is hard to describe.  It's not really a "shake" as such ... no, actually it is a bit of a shake.  Obviously you need enough opposing pressure from the top of the neck for you to squeeze the string up in pitch, but the weight of the guitar neck can be used to offset this and allow you to loosen your thumb grasp and move the neck up and down rather than doing all the work with the fretting finger(s).  This is obviously only how I would do it.  Others will have different techniques, and additionally if I needed slower vibrato this method wouldn't work.

Am I mistaken or did the guy in the video mention "intangible elements" more than once

Bill - thanks for taking the time and going to the trouble of articulating that, appreciated. 

Re the text in bold, not sure I fully understand: can I ask (and bear with me if this sounds a bit pretentious, but it's hard trying to describe the movement in 3 dimensions otherwise..) what are you doing to move the neck up and down, if it's not the normal movement of the string across the neck laterally being generated by the pivoting of your fretting hand round the base of your index finger ?

(Hope that makes sense..)

BillDL

I would have posted a video somewhere and given a link to it, but i don' have a YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, etc account, my camera is crap, and I only have a very cheap old smartphone thati haven't switched on for several months, so I'm just going to have to try and describe this.

• 2nd string: Index finger 16th fret, middle finger 17th, ring finger 18th.
• Place the area just in front of the base joint (i.e. punching knuckle) of the index finger under bottom of neck below 13th fret.  The web between thumb and forefinger is not touching the neck, just the front of that joint.
  
• Inside edge of end joint of thumb touching upperside of neck at the 14th fret. Tip of thumb pointing up above the edge of the fretboard and away from the guitar body so just the joint is pressing on te neck.
  
• Palm curved with outside edge (i.e. karate chop edge) pointing roughly down towards the tip of the horn of a Les Paul.
• I execute the bend by pulling the karate chopping edge of my hand up towards the neck and rotating my forearm clockwise (looking down from the wrist towards the elbow) while simultaneously moving my elbow outwards slightly and rolling my thumb clockwise along the top side of the neck towards the 12th fret (kind of like Spiderman turning his wrist up to squirt a web onto the back of the neck at the 20th fret while giving the police your rolled thumbprint).
• My fingers stay roughly in the same hook over onto the fretboard approaching the strings from below rather than from overhead.  The bend comes from the upward movement of the outside edge of my palm and rolling my thumb away.  The pivot point is on the edge of the base knuckle of my index finger.  My thumb is barely holding down the top of the neck.
• I still have enough upwards movement on my palm and rotation of my wrist to bend a bit above the pitch of the bent string.  The neck is generally heavy enough not to push upwards too much so I don't have to grip it hard with the opposing thumb.
  
• If I now let the edge of my palm rotate back downwards from the forearm and wrist and allow my thumb to roll back up the edge of the neck it will allow the note to drop in pitch just below the bent note.
• For a fast wide vibrato the neck pivoting on that knuckle under the bottom edge of the neck actually moves the neck up and down in a slight shake or more like a bounce and helps to create and keep momentum for a slow "flutter".

I did say it would be hard to describe.  The thing is, everybody find their own way to get a similar end result.  A slightly different end result creates individuality. The way I do it just evolved naturally and I do it without thinking, hence the difficulty explaining it in words.  If I clamp my thumb over the top of the neck and move my fingers to push up into the bend I have great difficulty then applying and sustaining vibrato using finger movement only. The rotation of the forearm and wrist and the elbow swinging outwards a bit for the upward bending is almost like a pendulum.

AK99

^ That's excellent. Detailed, but absolutely clear. No need for videos when you can write like that

Have been experimenting with it (for far too long when Im supposed to be working) this morning. Compared to what Ive been trying to do before, there's a lot of subtle, nuanced differences. Feels like each has a minimal impact on their own, but taken together seem to make for a lot 'stronger' hand finger unit. Makes it much easier to control the stretch and subsequent bending of the string using my forearm more than the individual fingers.

BillDL said:

• 2nd string: Index finger 16th fret, middle finger 17th, ring finger 18th.

If there's one thing that has made a bigger difference than anything else, it's this. The three fingers supporting together like that allow you to stop worrying about the ring finger, and use the wrist and forearm to control the whole thing - a huge difference.

Thanks for all your help, and patience BillDL - really very much appreciated.
Alan

hollywoodrox

This guy is one of Tom Hess’s Disciples , says some good stuff though, so does Tom  but bit of an odd bunch