My kid having problems at school

CHRISB50

Morning all,

Need some advice...

My daughter is just 4 and started school last week. Obviously as I'm sure all the other parents can attest to, this is a nervous time for both child and parents, as it's a huge change for the littl'un and you just want them to be OK on one of their first big steps in life.

When my wife collected our daughter yesterday she noticed she had a big cut on her knee, and after some further investigation a lump to one side of her forehead.

My wife took her in to speak to the teacher, however the teacher said that she hadn't noticed the bump on her head (to be fair it is covered by my daughter's fringe, so it's not obvious) and that they (the teachers) had asked her about her knee, but my daughter said she fell over in the playground and it was OK now. So they left it.

Once my wife got our daughter home she sat her down and asked what had happened.

It turns out one of the girls from the year above pushed her over then actually headbutted her! Hence the cut on her knee and the lump on the forehead.

The little girl from the year above who did it is our next door neighbour's younger daughter. She is 6.

We had already warned the school that there was a potential this could happen. My daughter is at the age where she wants to play with 'bigger' girls so she always likes to play with our next door neighbour's kids when she can. They are fine normally, but the younger daughter (who is the one who has hit my daughter) has shown signs in the past that she can lose her temper a bit with our kid, but nothing like this. We always keep a close eye on it. Hence we asked the school to do the same. 

Once we found out what had happened I tried to go next door to speak (calmly) to the parents about it, but they weren't home from work yet. When I got back home, my parents (who were round our house at the time), told me to leave it and go and speak to the school about it. They need to be the ones to sort it out, was their opinion. My wife and I eventually decided it was probably best to speak to the school about it first, then approach the parents.

Mrs B spoke to the teacher this morning and filled her in on what our daughter said had happened. The teacher was quite shocked, but said that she would speak to the other girl's teacher, and would maybe speak to her herself as well. They will keep an eye on them in the playground and try to ensure nothing else happens.

My wife will go in and speak to the teacher again tonight to find out how the school have handled it.

I think I'm going to go round tonight to have a word with the parents too.

That is currently how I have left it. It's a shit situation. I just want my little girl to be OK.

What do you think? Are we doing the right thing? Is there anything else we can do? Would you act differently? Anyone else had similar experiences.

 

underdog

It's Shit, I've got a 12 year old who's been picked on most of her school life, and a 4 year old who's just started full time and I'm fearing the same.

Speak to the parents would be my choice, this is your child so tell them in no uncertain terms that you won't be so reasonable if it happens again.

Most parents are reasonable, they would want to stop their child being a bully, however some are the reason their child behaves that way. I had one of those type of parents when my daughter was being picked on, sometimes you have to speak a language they understand, so I told the father every time his daughter hit mine I'd hit him, it stopped after that

CHRISB50

underdog;347908" said:

It's Shit, I've got a 12 year old who's been picked on most of her school life, and a 4 year old who's just started full time and I'm fearing the same.

Speak to the parents would be my choice, this is your child so tell them in no uncertain terms that you won't be so reasonable if it happens again.

Most parents are reasonable, they would want to stop their child being a bully, however some are the reason their child behaves that way. I had one of those type of parents when my daughter was being picked on, sometimes you have to speak a language they understand, so I told the father every time his daughter hit mine I'd hit him, it stopped after that

I'm sorry to hear you've had a similar experience. And yeah, it's very shit.

I think I will speak to the parents as well. I don't really want to fall out as they live next door, and that just complicates things further.

The husband is pretty reasonable. It's the wife where this kid has got the behaviour from.

I just hope they are receptive!

underdog

It's horrible, it's a hard time for the little ones as it is. Just have a chat with the father and if that don't help slip a couple 8 year olds a tenner to slap the little girl on your behalf.

frankus

Don't speak to the parents. Let the school sort it out. You have no way of knowing how things will pan out and you'll have to live next to them afterwards.

The school will record the incident, discuss it with the kid, make a record in a book of actions by the kid which will be reported to the parents at parents evening if it remains a one-off.

If the kid does something again, the parents will get called in and the first issue will be raised without the identity being divulged.

The advantage of the school handling it is they have authority, procedures to handle this, and are impartial.

BELIEVE ME, there is nothing so fraught as trying to resolve it yourself, one kid at my son's primary school decided he wanted my son's best friend so spread a load of lies about my son and caused a feud.. being good friends with our son's best friend's parents I phoned up to figure it out, the guy went balistic at the possibility the false rumours were true and frankly was useless for the rest of the conversation, and verbally abused my wife the next day at school - which frankly is a mistake and saw him beating a retreat to his car.. the trick ISN'T escalation it's openness - bullies hate it - and kids learn it from somewhere so parents might not be rational.

What your daughter needs to know is that what's happening isn't right, you love her and you've got a plan and it involves the teachers. There are lots of books in the library on bullying like Tyrone the Horrible which might help your daughter to put this in perspective and feel okay about talking about it.

If I were you I'd listen to your wife, tell her how awful you feel and wish you could do something, because frankly someone who can get a four year old to talk about something so personal is pretty special

It really sucks to feel caught up in stuff like that, recognise that, accept it, realise you don't need to act on that then do the right thing for your daughter. Good luck.

 

jonnyburgo

Hi Chris, we have had similar with our next door neighbour. I wrote about it on here at the time. Their little girl is a year older than ours and is a right bossy little cow with no comeback from the parents, we hear the daughter verbally abusing them and they never do anything, whereas their son gets pulled up for everything. Its as though they are scared of her.

Anyway our girl started playing with her a couple of years ago and it was all fine until the games started, our girl would be pushed out of the house whilst the rest of them played, everybody would get a lolly but our girl wouldnt etc etc. All the snidey psychological bullying tricks you can think of were played. Our girl would come in heartbroken not understanding why she is being singled out. This was this girl next door asserting her position in the group. She has to be queen bee or nothing.

Now two years later it has all changed to a much more even playing field, sure the girl next door is still not very nice at times but our girl stands up to her and just comes home or goes down the street to play with one of the other kids and then next doors comes round creeping. In short the little girl next door needs our girl much more than ours needs her.

Its easy to demonize the aggressor when they are hurting your own child, we certainly did, I hated the little shit. I was ready to throw the dad about in the road too.

This is all part of growing up, this helps children to learn to stand up, negotiate and socialise. Just keep reafirmng to your girl that she is wonderful and that she is strong (I'm sure you do this already) And best of luck to you and your little girl.

Fretwired

I'd be careful and wouldn't overreact. You've told the school - ask the staff to keep an eye on the situation. This could be a one-off incident. If you blow it out of all proportion it could marginalise your child in the eyes of the other kids and lead to her getting regularly bullied. Make sure that your daughter understands what bullying is and that it is wrong and should be reported to you.

I went through it with my kids. At that young age things will happen due to the age/size/development differences between kids.

frankus

I never knew you had kids @Fretwired... blimey you learn something new everyday.

Fretwired

frankus said:

I never knew you had kids @Fretwired... blimey you learn something new everyday.

Two boys .. the eldest is in his 30s ... the youngest 26 ...

JAYJO

I agree with Frankus, Let the school deal with it.
My son is 4 and started school yesterday. He has to drink when the other chldren wont be and i know this will stop him drinking. He will copy the other kids and so we are relying on the teachers to sort this out. We cant be there all day. It is vital he has his drinks as his kidney is no longer growing with his body and his other kidney is damaged. We trust the teachers to help us. The Mrs has been into the school and spoke to the teachers who have agreed to do all they can.My son wants to be a big boy now and isnt prepared to wait, he is 4 but tells us next year he will be 9 ha. He plays with older kids and some of them look out for him which is really ace. Hopefully some other kids will look out for your daughter too.

spacecadet

Take her to karate/ boxing/ fight classes. Job done.

FX_Munkee

Same with my middle son, except it was his "best friend" in his class. I agree with @Fretwired and @Frankus, leave it to the school to monitor. They are the verifiable impartial arbiters in this case, neither of the sets of parents can claim this.
The school dealt with my sons problem quickly and effectively.

spacecadet

In all seriousness, both my kids have been heavily bullied in the past. It makes you feel shit for them. I was bullied at school but quickly learned that the bullies themselves are mainly all talk and totally shit themselves when actually confronted.

As has been said, don't overreact. Going to her parents all guns blazing will cause more problems. Schools are shit and are terrified to do anything but do approach them, get them to record the incident and make sure you get a copy of the report. I would also approach the parents and have a general chat about it. Remember there are always two sides. My boy is an angel but he has said stuff (as we all have) that has rubbed someone up the wrong way and got a punch in the face. He meant no malice by what he said but it was taken out of context.

Axe_meister

Tis a constant worry in my house as my son (10) has been diagnosed with ASD or Aspergers,  and we are highly suspicious that our daughter (15) has it.

There are constant mis-understandings between our children and others. Fortunately (but also unfortunately), my son stands up to bullies or immediately goes and tells a teacher, yes he has a reputation as a snitch, but the bullies now realise they will just get into trouble if they try anything. 

matt1973

In my experience, resolving things with other parents usually ends with them adopting a defensive stance. And the school really should deal with the matter if the incident happened on their premises.

But it may be worth considering helping you child understand a little more about what bullying is, how to avoid it and, should it happen in future, what she should do in that instance.

Speaking from my own experience, something else to consider, is to cultivate you child's confidence. As a four year old, my little girl was a very sweet-natured bashful child who really had no idea that other kids could be cruel. As lovely as she was, she was a target. As parents, we became worried.

To build her confidence we took her to independent after school clubs (Cheer Leading and, later, Gymnastics) where she gradually came out her shell and progressed until she was able to perform her newfound skills at national shows with far bigger PAs and audiences than I'm used to

Anyway, to cut a long story short, she's still our wonderful, kind little girl but she also has some fantastic abilities few of her peers have had the opportunity to acquire. And, perhaps more importantly, she also has a strong, quiet confidence about her now. A confidence which your average bully may well find a little too much of a proposition?

As someone who's been there, I sincerely wish you all the best with the situation.

frankus

spacecadet said:

Take her to karate/ boxing/ fight classes. Job done.

Most clubs won't teach kids the correct tools for that modality of fighting. If the bully is scared off by a knifehand block and mean back stance that's great, but it might mean they gang up on you.

Fighting bullies involves small unpleasant tricks - pressure points, where to pinch, stuff that doesn't leave a mark or have any lasting damage but is unpleasant enough to have someone think twice about hassling you, AND importantly is too embarrassing to relay to other bullies (he pinched me really hard sounds wussy - but it deters all the same and other bullies notice that shame and sedulously avoid it) which is more prevailent in Ju-jitsu or Judo (after Funakoshi took Karate to the mainland and taught it in schools alongside Judo - which involved removing the throws, arm locks, chokes and strangles from the style).

Generally if you find a martial arts teacher who teaches the class stranger-danger shouting "you're not my mum/dad" as a way of self defence (i.e. a sensible appraisal of a child's strengths) then they'll probably teach the "small war" stuff for school - that's utterly useless in any other form of fighting.

randomhandclaps

I found out that both our sons were being bullied to differing extents last year.  The oldest (5) was getting it worse.  Each evening when returning from school if they have a scratch or a bruise I am always asking them how it happened.  The oldest would usually say he fell over etc. as he is desperate not to get anybody into trouble.  Then one day he came home with a bruise that clearly resembled a stamp mark in his groin.  Me and him went out for a walk and eventually he broke down and told me what had been happening.  The bullying was led by one boy and ranged from teasing everything for being too girly or babyish, right through to pretty nasty physical assaults.

Sure enough this boy's dad is the kind of pathetic insecure homophobic twat who believes that if his son ever got exposed to the colour pink, had a cry or walked away from a fight he would immediately turn gay and that would be his massive failure as a dad.

I felt I had three choices -

1. Write to the school.
2. Go and stamp on the dad.
3. Try and talk calmly to the dad (which would inevitably end with me stamping on him as he's a gobby prick.)

I felt at the time the fairest and ultimately least destructive approach for the atmosphere my son has to enter every day was to write to the school.  We also spoke to our sons teacher in person - she is an incredibly lovely woman, but we wanted something on record to say for certain 'Here is where we first complained'.  I highlighted the fact that my child had actually been the victim of an assault which would be unacceptable outside the gates of the school and if committed out of school would have resulted in police involvement.  I didn't want to directly threaten them with 'sort it out or I'll call the police' but put in just enough hint to imply that I didn't want to be pushed to the point where involving outside agencies was my only way to protect my child.  The letter was very politely written from the perspective of 'Help, what do we do?' but also clear that if nothing changed I would step up the issue further.

The onus I always put back on the school is that when in my care I do everything in my power to protect my child.  However I am legally forced to send my kid to school and for that time surrender guardianship and protection to them.  It is a horrible position to be in as a parent and schools need to realise this.

Ultimately you have to do what you and you wife feel is right but I sincerely echo what has been said about not speaking to the parents and instead remembering and reiterating the responsibility the school have to your child's protection and writing to them explaining both you child's and both you and your wife feelings as well as actual events.

Forge

Just as stated above. This is the responsibility of the school, ask them to take the necessary steps and inform them that failure on their part to care for your child will result in you contacting the relevant authorities immediately. They hate that sort of publicity so they should get moving fast, I doubt very much the next door parents will do anything as most of them seem to be doormats for their kids these days. My dad had a rustic approach to this and always told me to stand my ground which I did but this would land your daughter in lots of trouble...give the school a chance to deal with this.

Deadman

When someone decided to hit me at school I hit them back, but much harder. My eldest son (who did have problems a few years ago) has 'stood up for himself' recently and people don't mess with him anymore. I do agree that the school should be left/able to sort it out but if and when that continues to fail this becomes an attractive option. Who wants to be a punchbag all their lives?

xSkarloey

I hope it resolves itself ASAP. Good luck. 

As well as telling the class teacher, I'd make sure that you speak to the Head as well. 

randomhandclaps

Skarloey said:

As well as telling the class teacher, I'd make sure that you speak to the Head as well. 

That's one of the advantages of writing.  It doesn't have to be some long formal complaint but as it is written it has to be to the Head & Deputy along with the school's in-house child protection officer.