Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization?

joeW

Anyone tried studying / using George Russells theory?  Bit of a mixed reception from what I have read, but seemed very influential at the time.  Just wondering if anyone has any opinion on whether its worth the time investment
Thanks

joeW

My threads are officially the most dull!  

octatonic

I've got the book but it is an entirely new way of harmonising and years and years of work.

I put it in the same category as 'Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns' by Slonimsky- another book often named checked by jazz nerds (not saying you are doing this) that very few people have fully utilised.
Probably great but not for most people.

'Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar' by George Van Eps is probably a better starting point.

joeW

octatonic said:

I've got the book but it is an entirely new way of harmonising and years and years of work.

I put it in the same category as 'Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns' by Slonimsky- another book often named checked by jazz nerds (not saying you are doing this) that very few people have fully utilised.
Probably great but not for most people.

'Harmonic Mechanisms for Guitar' by George Van Eps is probably a better starting point.

Van Eps is a good call -> at least its guitar specific too.  I am not musically trained, so might yield better real results.  thanks 

octatonic

HMFG has the added advantage of still being in print and therefore not £500, unlike the Russell book.

joeW

octatonic said:

HMFG has the added advantage of still being in print and therefore not £500, unlike the Russell book.

i think there's a few pdf's lurking around ... £500 would be rather extreme - esp if its way over my head (v likely)

viz

joeW said:

octatonic said:

HMFG has the added advantage of still being in print and therefore not £500, unlike the Russell book.

i think there's a few pdf's lurking around ... £500 would be rather extreme - esp if its way over my head (v likely)

Well, and also it’s just not as ubiquitous a style of music, the Greeks started with Lydian as mode 1, they had 4 modes initially, and the major scale (and the minor actually) weren’t among them; they loved a bit of Lydian because everything was raised, but Ionion took hold because, as the hypomode of lydian it was oft heard, and because its two tetrachords are identical so it has a wonderful symmetry, and hey presto, western music was born. And indeed the lydian organisation is easy to translate to if you want (it’s one notch along the circle of fifths) so if you ever need to think that way it’s right there. 

I reckon stick with western harmony and then consider augmenting it. (Unintentional pun)

octatonic

viz said:

I reckon stick with western harmony and then consider augmenting it. (Unintentional pun)

That is essentially what I was suggesting.
Same goes for quartal harmony, or all the various versions of microtonal.
They are interesting and fun as diversions from western harmony.

I can't imagine basing my entire approach on any of them though.

viz

Exactamundo. It would sound too samey. 

wizbit81

LCC is fantastic if you are starting from scratch and want to play jazz or other improvised music. If you've invested many years into normal theory, don't change. Think of it like tuning in 4ths, extremely ergonomically brilliant and makes things a tonne easier, but if you didn't do it from day 1 no point changing after 20 years of playing normally.

joeW

wizbit81 said:

LCC is fantastic if you are starting from scratch and want to play jazz or other improvised music. If you've invested many years into normal theory, don't change. Think of it like tuning in 4ths, extremely ergonomically brilliant and makes things a tonne easier, but if you didn't do it from day 1 no point changing after 20 years of playing normally.

Ok thanks - am thinking i'll stick with what I'm doing.  Best handle on tFB btw ...

wizbit81

joeW said:

wizbit81 said:

LCC is fantastic if you are starting from scratch and want to play jazz or other improvised music. If you've invested many years into normal theory, don't change. Think of it like tuning in 4ths, extremely ergonomically brilliant and makes things a tonne easier, but if you didn't do it from day 1 no point changing after 20 years of playing normally.

Ok thanks - am thinking i'll stick with what I'm doing.  Best handle on tFB btw ...

Haha thanks. If you know you know

GuyBoden

The concept is basically multiple scale choices that can be played over each chord type, each scale type is more or less playing out from the chord's tonality.

It's a organised concept for playing "out" over chords.

I studied it years ago and converted the book's logic to easier "normal" common scale names.

joeW

GuyBoden said:

The concept is basically multiple scale choices that can be played over each chord type, each scale type is more or less playing out from the chord's tonality.

It's a organised concept for playing "out" over chords.

I studied it years ago and converted the book's logic to easier "normal" common scale names.

Interesting - thanks.  Did you feel it was worth the time investment? 

GuyBoden

joeW said:

GuyBoden said:

The concept is basically multiple scale choices that can be played over each chord type, each scale type is more or less playing out from the chord's tonality.

It's a organised concept for playing "out" over chords.

I studied it years ago and converted the book's logic to easier "normal" common scale names.

Interesting - thanks.  Did you feel it was worth the time investment? 

I'm not you, so I couldn't say.

David Baker, had a book called "The Lydian Chromatic Concept " that is based on the LCC, but a list of scales and more scale patterns than you'd ever need for each chord type, you might find a pdf of the book with a google search.

Enjoy the journey without an ending.