Is what most of us practice basically useless?

Shrews

Just thrashing the bastard thing with my headphones on and pretending I'm playing to thousands is generally my practice time sorted.

slacker

Practicing alone is only part of the equation.

Learn a song on your own. Learn how to play it in a band. Play in front of people and learn what they respond to. 

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

^ What @drofluf said goes for me too. I spend a lot of time exploring new variations on old themes, which gradually morph into unrecognisable new  things.

I never actually get good at anything because by the time I get 80% of the way there I've thought of something to add on or modify, and I work on the new something until I've 80% mastered it and thought of another improvement which I can't play yet but start working on. You get the picture. I spend many hours a week doing that. You could say it never gets me anywhere because I never actually get good at anything. Or you could say that it is the perfect way to keep stretching my abilities and improving my technique, and something which gives me a little frustration and a lot of pleasure, week after month after year.  Both statements are true.

PS: just to be clear, this is all solo acoustic stuff, which is essentially fancified rhythm playing free of awkward constraints like having to leave room for the bass player and not being able to suddenly stick an extra half-bar in just because you feel like it.

PPS: as for pentatonics, I don't even know what they are. I mean I know that they are the same as proper scales except they have some of the notes left out, but I have never been able to see the point of doing that and without looking it up I can never recall which notes you have to remember not to play. 

Haha! You sound exactly like me. I understand the reasoning and theory behind it but I'm so bloody forgetful.

koneguitarist

I’m completely wrong in everything I do regarding practice etc when I pick up a guitar it’s for pleasure, I will generally put some music on that I don’t know and just play along. 

That’s it. No scales, no working on chord progressions, just have fun playing along with music.
as I said, completely wrong, I think. 

PolarityMan

I would restate this problem as too many guitarists dont join bands. 

or possibly

Too many guitarists dont write music. 

rocktron

If you want to become a

lawyer, you go to law school,
medical doctor, you go to a medical college,
engineer, you go to an engineering college.

guitarist, . . . . er . . . .you teach yourself at home,

and therein lies a big part of the problem. Essential parts of fundamental music theory are left out.

I would say that most of us who are self taught concentrated on playing the instrument, and did not learn about what a Minor Third or a Flat Fifth is, for example, or even how to read music until much later. 

I think that is a major gap in one's knowledge in the early stages of learning.

hollywoodrox

fastonebaz said:

I reckon I'm soloing for about 25% of my bands live set!  

Gotta love the Bazshredz man 

koneguitarist

rocktron said:

If you want to become a

lawyer, you go to law school,
medical doctor, you go to a medical college,
engineer, you go to an engineering college.

guitarist, . . . . er . . . .you teach yourself at home,

and therein lies a big part of the problem. Essential parts of fundamental music theory are left out.

I would say that most of us who are self taught concentrated on playing the instrument, and did not learn about what a Minor Third or a Flat Fifth is, for example, or even how to read music until much later. 

I think that is a major gap in one's knowledge in the early stages of learning.

But if you go to school on guitar and learn all the correct things to play, you sound just like everyone else, competent but safe! 

I’m not knocking learning, but most great guitarists have done an apprenticeship in the clubs and pubs, copying various songs, putting something of themselves in till they arrive at their style and sound. 

Look at Guthrie Govan, Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, all incredible guitarists, but yet it’s still Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Beck, SRV that most aspire to be like. 

roberty

99% sure those players you mention are/were hot on theory @koneguitarist. You're more likely to play 'safe' if you're constantly in a guessing game with the basic diatonic scales

roberty

Well maybe Beck doesn't know theory but he does play diatonic and he hits chord tones through changes, which is exactly the sort of thing theory is there to describe. Theory is not prescriptive as some people think, it's descriptive 

https://www.harmonycentral.com/forums/topic/1706890-did-jeff-beck-know-music-theory/?do=findComment&comment=28482648

koneguitarist

roberty said:

99% sure those players you mention are/were hot on theory @koneguitarist. You're more likely to play 'safe' if you're constantly in a guessing game with the basic diatonic scales

Not sure if Hendrix or Clapton were ever hot on theory, pretty sure SRV and Beck were’nt either. Page probably read music due to session work in early 60s.
generally classical and Jazz musicians have in the past ‘trained’ as musicians, whilst rock, Blues and Country for instance learnt as they gigged constantly round the clubs.
More guitarists these days go to classes in their chosen field, but I wonder whether we will lose the ability of someone different coming along and changing guitar like EVH did 44 years ago, and no one seems to have done since. 

roberty

koneguitarist said:

roberty said:

99% sure those players you mention are/were hot on theory @koneguitarist. You're more likely to play 'safe' if you're constantly in a guessing game with the basic diatonic scales

Not sure if Hendrix or Clapton were ever hot on theory, pretty sure SRV and Beck were’nt either. Page probably read music due to session work in early 60s.
generally classical and Jazz musicians have in the past ‘trained’ as musicians, whilst rock, Blues and Country for instance learnt as they gigged constantly round the clubs.
More guitarists these days go to classes in their chosen field, but I wonder whether we will lose the ability of someone different coming along and changing guitar like EVH did 44 years ago, and no one seems to have done since. 

Hendrix was a sideman for the biggest R&B singers in the US. He must have known his way around a chord chart and understood different voicings

Either way, people don't become geniuses by not learning theory. It's not a healthy attitude to have. No one ever learnt theory and regretted it. It's like Muhammad Ali boxing with his hands by his side. You're not gonna be him 

koneguitarist

I don’t say don’t learn, I think the mark of a great player is not defined by his knowledge of musical theory. 

Lots of great players learn by copying what others before them have played and building on it not studying musical theory. Learning musical theory is not gonna stop a great player becoming better, like McCartney and co learning as they went from George Martin and having a great ear for music changes. 

There was a great anecdote from Dave Lee Roth in a magazine called Making Music years ago where he was asked who was better, Eddie or Steve? 

His answer was not surprising (to me anyway) how he described them. 

He said Eddie was with him in beginning learning all theses cover songs, Zeppelin, Hendrix, Free etc etc whereas Steve studied and can play anything that comes into his head with amazing technique etc. 
the interviewer said “cut the crap, who’s best.” DLR said Eddie. 

He was one of a kind, I am not a tapping and tremolo widdling fan, but he changed the world of guitar like no one since! 

DaveJames

When I was young I really wanted to play the solo of feel the benefit 10cc, I never thought I would achieve it but I eventually learned it, I really loved that solo. So what's the problem you ask, it took me so long to learn it, listening to every phrase over, and over again, I'm now bloody sick of it.

Kilgore

I studied guitar at the University of YouTube. I skipped most of the theory stuff and just put my fingers on the fretboard where the dudes told me too.

Practice consists of learning songs and noodling. I've never got my head around this practising scales lark. I don't know what modes are. I'm not proud of my lack of knowledge, it's rather lamentable but I just can't be arsed.

 I can play well enough that non guitarists are left with the impression that I know what I'm doing. Real musicians would see through me straight away. 

I mostly play acoustic fingerstyle blues so I can do the bass, rhythm and lead bits for a three chord song  without the inconvenience of playing with other people, which is ideal for an introvert like myself. 

  

goldpony

[first post newbie!]

I've been playing guitar for 33 years, took me a year or two to get to 'punk band' level - power chords, a few barre chords and a couple of half arsed scales, but then I feel like I've spent 31 years basically stuck. I'm forever noodling around but if ever there was an example of how you can play an instrument for 10,000 hours and not improve then it's me. Unfocussed practice, no goals, no method, forever hitting the wrong notes and chords. I've actually got good 'technique' but If you asked me to play 'happy birthday' I'd balls it up by hitting the wrong notes in a Les Dawson style.

Anyway, I recently picked up the Tim Stewart rhythm guitar course on Jam Play and it's been amazing. I've only really done the first two lessons - 

major triads: root position/1st inv/2nd inv on strings 123, 234, 345

minor triads: root position/1st inv/2nd inv on strings 123, 234, 345

Taking my time to really learn and practice this simple concept over the last month is opening up the guitar in a way I thought was forever out of my reach. Being able to play for example a G major triad in multiple positions all over the neck is a revelation... I feel like another 20 years and I could be quite good! 

Different things work for different people but it's taken me a LONG time to realise a little bit of theory goes a long way.

Sporky

koneguitarist said:

But if you go to school on guitar and learn all the correct things to play

Then you missed the point of theory.

Its clear you are basing your anti-theory position on ignorance of what it's actually about. I have grade 6 theory; at no point does a little theory-demon in my head tell me what I have to play next.

Neilybob

My issue is I know some theory like how to work out modes but I've never applied it to my playing. I think this is mainly because I just play covers and never bother to learn why I'm playing those notes. 

Sporky

There's a lot of guitar playing that needs no formal understanding of theory. That's fine. 

I'm just weary of this oft-repeated nonsense that understanding how music works somehow forces you to play things you don't want to - and it's always pushed by people with no understanding of theory. It's ignorance shouted from the rooftops. 

Handsome_Chris

Sporky said:

There's a lot of guitar playing that needs no formal understanding of theory. That's fine. 

I'm just weary of this oft-repeated nonsense that understanding how music works somehow forces you to play things you don't want to - and it's always pushed by people with no understanding of theory. It's ignorance shouted from the rooftops. 

Kinda echos what I was told about music theory.  Music theory is there to help you describe what you have written: not to dictate what should be written.