Consistency - Out of reach..... :(

Boromedic

This is something I struggle with all the time and I wondered what others thought.

I can learn songs, parts of songs, I've written songs even, yet no matter how well I get it under my fingers or how long I practice it for I find I can't consistently play it well everytime. Is it just me?!!

Like, I can play a number of songs all the way through and I've probably put a load of hours into them and I'll still mess it up, I'll go as far as to say that I wouldn't be able to play it exactly the same way twice. So the second pass would have some subtle differences or I'll miss a chord/beat, be late for a melody line etc., if I sat and played it 10 times I would completely ruin it at least twice.

Do others struggle with this, how can you get over it? Should I just accept it as part of the playing guitar process?

I mean I can't compare myself to pro level guys and I'm not meaning to, but I see some of the stuff guys play on here or at gigs and they seem to be able to nail stuff pretty much on the money every time. Perhaps I'm being daft and should just enjoy what I do, but it's probably the more frustrating part of playing the damn thing!!

Thanks

stufisher

I have exactly the same problem (challenge).

I put it down to not being in a band or jamming with others and also caring not a joy because I am happy just makingusic and learning new stuff.

When I was in my teen years and played/practiced with others I did have stuff nailed ... as did the singer, keys player and drummer ... stuff just worked and we just got on with it.

Bottom line for me is that playing now is purely for the joy of music and keeping my brain active and creaking bones/joints from seizing up completely.

Not sure of your circumstances but if you haven't got a project or a deadline or a targeted reason then just enjoy it and don't beat yourself up.

I'm sure you'll get beyond this though  

fastonebaz

For me it's just practice till I can't get it wrong and that might take weeks and hundreds of reps of more.  Actually took me afew years to perfect the Jon Lord Keyboard Solo from Deep Purples Highway Star on guitar,  I gave up for a while then revisited a couple years later and found I could get faster and more consistent.   Practice.  

Boromedic

stufisher said:

I have exactly the same problem (challenge).

I put it down to not being in a band or jamming with others and also caring not a joy because I am happy just makingusic and learning new stuff.

When I was in my teen years and played/practiced with others I did have stuff nailed ... as did the singer, keys player and drummer ... stuff just worked and we just got on with it.

Bottom line for me is that playing now is purely for the joy of music and keeping my brain active and creaking bones/joints from seizing up completely.

Not sure of your circumstances but if you haven't got a project or a deadline or a targeted reason then just enjoy it and don't beat yourself up.

I'm sure you'll get beyond this though  

Thanks, I've not got anything to aim for beyond personal satisfaction really, it's just frustrating to never really get "there"!

I'll keep playing of course and I love doing so it's just the frustration

Boromedic

fastonebaz said:

For me it's just practice till I can't get it wrong and that might take weeks and hundreds of reps of more.  Actually took me afew years to perfect the Jon Lord Keyboard Solo from Deep Purples Highway Star on guitar,  I gave up for a while then revisited a couple years later and found I could get faster and more consistent.   Practice.  

Wow that's some tasty playing if you've got that down!

Yeah I thought that's what would get it, but I can literally put in hours and hours and it's never quite right each time... One day maybe

Sporky

One of my cello teacher's things is not to practice until you get it right once - keep going until you get it right three times in a row.

It's a less brutal subset of "practice until you can't get it wrong".

And don't confuse practice with performance - break a piece down into sections. I spend time doing repeats of just one shift at times. 

Roland

Breaking down into sections is important. After a while the section becomes automatic, and you start thinking in sections rather than individual notes. You can then string sections together. I worked with a sax player who was taught to do this backwards, learning the last section first. His theory was that you are then playing into territory which you know, and not worrying about the section coming up rather than the one you’re currently playing.

Boromedic

Sporky said:

One of my cello teacher's things is not to practice until you get it right once - keep going until you get it right three times in a row.

It's a less brutal subset of "practice until you can't get it wrong".

And don't confuse practice with performance - break a piece down into sections. I spend time doing repeats of just one shift at times. 

Thanks that sounds like a good idea, I mean this is kind of generally what I do but I don't think I ever reach the right 3 times in a row thing

Like I can cycle say D, C, G chords open and play a decent strumming pattern for 4 bars, however by the time I get to the third cycle I'll have fluffed something, I think my brain just wants me to do it differently. Obviously I keep playing and striving and I get better, but this is still the one thing that eludes me.

Boromedic

Roland said:

Breaking down into sections is important. After a while the section becomes automatic, and you start thinking in sections rather than individual notes. You can then string sections together. I worked with a sax player who was taught to do this backwards, learning the last section first. His theory was that you are then playing into territory which you know, and not worrying about the section coming up rather than the one you’re currently playing.

This is actually not a bad idea tbh, I've never considered it like that and sounds like a great way to take some heat off. I suppose the only thing with lead breaks/melodies/solos is the harder parts are usually late in the piece. That being said, that also takes the heat off. I do break pieces like that into sections to learn, just never get the consistency

Roland

Another thing to bear in mind with many solos is that the “harder part” is often the original artist’s mannerisms. I like to watch live videos to see whether they repeat these mannerisms, or whether they play something different from what was recorded at 2am one morning, then cut and pasted in Protools.

AsterixTG

I've recorded stuff that was spontaneous and never got it quite right again even after going back and trying to work out what the hell I did, let alone nail other people's.

One of the reasons why I rarely try and play other people's stuff accurately - I'm not good enough and it can rob emotion and personality - I aim to get the entry and exits on point, maybe a few key phrases in the meat of the thing, but otherwise take the pressure off and do what works for me. It's more fun, creative and takes a lot of the pressure off.

I never play my own stuff identically and I don't do covers work where punters are expecting facsimiles of the recorded track, so I just interpret stuff my way - for better or worse.

Don't get me wrong though - If I'm in a position to nail stuff and it flows naturally, it's brilliant - I'm just not technically good enough to do it usually.

bloodandtears

Roland said:

Another thing to bear in mind with many solos is that the “harder part” is often the original artist’s mannerisms. I like to watch live videos to see whether they repeat these mannerisms, or whether they play something different from what was recorded at 2am one morning, then cut and pasted in Protools.

me too...  quite often the recorded version is made easier for live interpretation, or even forgotten...

Boromedic

Roland said:

Another thing to bear in mind with many solos is that the “harder part” is often the original artist’s mannerisms. I like to watch live videos to see whether they repeat these mannerisms, or whether they play something different from what was recorded at 2am one morning, then cut and pasted in Protools.

Thats a good point actually @Roland that tends to be a better way for me anyway even with the main tracks, just to see how they do it as it's often different to the tab or lesson I've found.

Boromedic

AsterixTG said:

I've recorded stuff that was spontaneous and never got it quite right again even after going back and trying to work out what the hell I did, let alone nail other people's.

One of the reasons why I rarely try and play other people's stuff accurately - I'm not good enough and it can rob emotion and personality - I aim to get the entry and exits on point, maybe a few key phrases in the meat of the thing, but otherwise take the pressure off and do what works for me. It's more fun, creative and takes a lot of the pressure off.

I never play my own stuff identically and I don't do covers work where punters are expecting facsimiles of the recorded track, so I just interpret stuff my way - for better or worse.

Don't get me wrong though - If I'm in a position to nail stuff and it flows naturally, it's brilliant - I'm just not technically good enough to do it usually.

Sounds a lot like me, I mean I don't necessarily want to nail it perfectly every time and trying to copy someone elses legato and phrasing is a hiding to nothing as we all have our own voice. I suppose I just want consistency in my own voice is probably where I'm looking to go. I know it's practice to an extent, it's frustration born out of even easy stuff evading repetition at times

Roland

AsterixTG said:

… I don't do covers work where punters are expecting facsimiles of the recorded track, so I just interpret stuff my way - for better or worse…

Most punters can’t tell beyond the key phrases. Some can’t even tap in 4:4 time. I’ve sometimes been asked why we included all that “other stuff” in a song. The listener hadn’t realised that there was more to the original than the punchline.

AsterixTG

I guess your own voice is simply whatever you do in the moment and as long as it's not duff notes or just lazy crap playing, if you're doing your best for the song, then it can't help but be the right thing.

'Flowing' is probably what describes the best feeling for me when playing - has nothing to do with any specific thing, but you just know when you are - that's also when you can take risks and pull them off.

But you also know when you're not flowing at all, then it's back to basics, aim for the pocket and don't let anyone else down - some might notice you being more awesome than usual they'll definitely notice the other way.

PAL

Roland said:

Breaking down into sections is important. After a while the section becomes automatic, and you start thinking in sections rather than individual notes. You can then string sections together. I worked with a sax player who was taught to do this backwards, learning the last section first. His theory was that you are then playing into territory which you know, and not worrying about the section coming up rather than the one you’re currently playing.

   I agree with learning in sections. I teach guitar and a student wanted to learn to play the Hotel California solo so I
   taught him the solo but every time he went wrong he went back to the beginning of the solo to start again but then kept going
   wrong ! I told him t break it down into sections and learn each section then put it all together he didn't do it and still has 
   problems. The thing is doing things in sections means if your playing live and something goes wrong you just pick up at the 
   next section because you won't get the chance to go back to the beginning. Hope this make sense and helps !