Hide Glue - how much to buy for a few builds ?

PeteC

Hi Folks   on my next few builds I want to try using hide glue - mainly for the experience and skillset but also for the "mojo" 

How much dry pearls/powder should I buy to do say 3-4 maple caps and the neck joints ?   
Is it worth going for say, 500g ? 

cheers
Pete

WezV

Yeah, 500g will go a long way.  Just mix up as much as you need each time. The pearls will keep if stored in a dry place.  

I tend to mix it in little plastic glue bottles which can then go straigt into a hot water bath to cook it.   It gets prepped the day before use.  You can do it the same say in a pinch, but cooling on day 1 and using on day 2 forms better bonds.

Don't try and  glue the maple caps on to the body with it.  It's much harder to use effectively on a big surface area like that unless you can keep both surfaces evenly warm.  Asking for trouble.

PeteC

Thanks @WezV ;
that's great advice.

Yeah I suppose caps are just too large to get done in the open time of the glue.  Set necks and fretboards then.  I like the idea of being able to remove stuff if I ever need to, and also want to see what its like to work with.  I have read that the joints can be almost invisible with hide glue if done well . 

I have tended to build necks with scarf joints so far - would hide glue be a good choice here - or stick with Titebond original ? 

The cheapest source I have found so far seems to be ebay violin supply dealers - any other sources you would recommend ?

thanks
Pete

I am hoping to get some build threads up here again soon - I have quite a few builds on the go now but haven't been taking many pics.   I am planning some LP style builds so plan to document them as I go ( though I haven't been taking pics of the templates I have been making this week )  

PeteC

I've been looking at the Liberon pearl glue - but there's no info on its gram strength.    anyone have any experience with it ? 

WezV

Hot hide glue has the benefit that it draws the pieces together, which is what helps with the joint visibility.  If you watch people making violins, they rarely clamp the plates when gluing them together them, just let the glue do the work.

I have not tried it on a scarf joint.  Should work fine, but the short working time means you need to get everything aligned quickly, so definitely pin the scarf outside the neck outline.

I am using Bolgers pearl glue, costs about a tenner for 1Kg  I'm not sure of the gram strength, and a lot of that does depend on the preparation method.

PeteC

cheers Wez, 
I've ordered some Bolgers. 

Looking at the description it seems to be exactly the same as the Liberon Pearl, which is also available in bulk from John Penny.  The Bolgers price was good and the postage not a rip off - unlike a lot I looked at last night where the shipping cost as much as the product, or more.  Pennys is a good price in bulk too ( minimum 1Kg I think ) 

Just grabbed a baby bottle heater on eBay too ! 

looking forward to trying it out on the LP style builds coming up this winter.  
Thanks for the help. 
Pete

WezV

This is my basic set-up, i remembered i needed some glue for tomorrow

Old cast oil glue pot, but i don'tt put the glue directly in the pot.  I put some pearls in the bottle and top up with water.  These 50ml bottles are a good size for most jobs you need hide glue for.  The glue doesn't go through the syringe tip, its just acting as a cap here


temperature is important.  If the water in the bottom pot is boiling, the water in the inner pot will be about 75 degrees and the glue will be about 60-63 degrees.  i check with a infrared thermometer and try not to heat it above 70 degrees.

when you think it is there, put the glue on something to see how it looks


that's not far off, but you can see its still got a slightly granular look.

and dabbing it with the back of a spoon shows its only just starting to get stringy, but doesn't have much strength yet


a few more minutes and I am getting much better strands


That will now cool down overnight and be heated up again tomorrow ready for use. By that point it should be about perfect, and can be reheated a few times after that if needed.


My grandad used to just keep adding more to the pot,  and it still worked for the piano repairs he was doing.  It stunk absolutely vile.    if you use small quantities of fresh glue the smell  doesn't get as bad.  the bottles i use can be boiled to clean them ready for  next time

PeteC

Thanks fantastic Wez - thanks for the mini tutorial - very helpful indeed.  
I am sure others will use that info too. 

Danielsguitars

I only use it on neck joints and fretboards depending on the build, lately I've been using titebond for a quicker build and nothing pure vintage spec.