Canary in a coal mine

DaveJames

Can't figure out the timing for the rythum guitar, there's odd strumming that seems to be random, or not, any help ?

JonnyBgoode

Nothing random, its a rapid staccato  down-up strum that begins on the offbeat (typical reggae/ska thing) So one AND two AND three AND four AND... with quick down up on the AND.

Look at it another way, subdivide each beat into 4 (Count it in 16ths) and his strums are on 3 and 4 of each beat

EricTheWeary

JonnyBgoode said:

Nothing random, its a rapid staccato  down-up strum that begins on the offbeat (typical reggae/ska thing) So one AND two AND three AND four AND... with quick down up on the AND.

Look at it another way, subdivide each beat into 4 (Count it in 16ths) and his strums are on 3 and 4 of each beat

There may be places where he is putting in extra flourishes although a) I’m not listening to it in a very hifi environment and b) it’s very fast. But the couple of covers on YouTube and the one lesson seem to take the rapid ska approach throughout (there’s also a lesson by someone who seems to have no idea so ignore that one). For cover band/play along purposes I’d certainly begin with what Jonny says. Apparently The Police never played this live so I’ve no idea what Summers would have done without the benefits of overdubs. 

monkey42

Great song 

https://youtu.be/tqEB0AeSzp4

Lewy

This sounds about right....

EricTheWeary

Lewy said:

This sounds about right....

Yeh, he’s doing fast ska (down strums on the AND) but there are a couple of fills. How regular they are in the song I haven’t got the patience to begin to work out. I think it’s about getting used to that feel first then seeing if you can deviate. 

JonnyBgoode

EricTheWeary said:

Lewy said:

This sounds about right....

Yeh, he’s doing fast ska (down strums on the AND) but there are a couple of fills. How regular they are in the song I haven’t got the patience to begin to work out. I think it’s about getting used to that feel first then seeing if you can deviate. 

To be precise it's a quick down-up as I said earlier, not just down. The video above is not quite right. (although he does it right a couple of times) Slow the original down in YouTube and you can hear Andy's 'chica - chica'  rhythm clearly. 

There's also the lead melody over the top plus I hear a muted rhythm guitar part overdub too, which may be the source of the OP's confusion,  If I was doing this in a two guitar band it would be a nice add on, or if I were demoing how the song is put together for YouTube I'd include it for accuracy otherwise it's not something worth worrying about as its not part of the main rhythm and just acts as a percussive effect. 

EricTheWeary

JonnyBgoode said:

EricTheWeary said:

Lewy said:

This sounds about right....

Yeh, he’s doing fast ska (down strums on the AND) but there are a couple of fills. How regular they are in the song I haven’t got the patience to begin to work out. I think it’s about getting used to that feel first then seeing if you can deviate. 

To be precise it's a quick down-up as I said earlier, not just down. The video above is not quite right. (although he does it right a couple of times) Slow the original down in YouTube and you can hear Andy's 'chica - chica'  rhythm clearly. 

There's also the lead melody over the top plus I hear a muted rhythm guitar part overdub too, which may be the source of the OP's confusion,  If I was doing this in a two guitar band it would be a nice add on, or if I were demoing how the song is put together for YouTube I'd include it for accuracy otherwise it's not something worth worrying about as its not part of the main rhythm and just acts as a percussive effect. 

I can hear the up down at 75% speed (I forget you can do that on YT) and can play along to that, I think. Falls apart at 100%…

JonnyBgoode

EricTheWeary said:

I can hear the up down at 75% speed (I forget you can do that on YT) and can play along to that, I think. Falls apart at 100%…

Practice it at tempo, mute the strings anywhere and strum very lightly across the strings moving your hand down and up in 16ths. You need a loose very relaxed wrist. and it helps to put emphasis on the first beat. Once you can do this you just need to turn the chord on and off by pressing it down at the right time (in this case, for the last down-up of each beat).

 This kind of thing is the basis of funk guitar (Nile Rodgers riffs etc) as well as Ska.

EricTheWeary

JonnyBgoode said:

EricTheWeary said:

I can hear the up down at 75% speed (I forget you can do that on YT) and can play along to that, I think. Falls apart at 100%…

Practice it at tempo, mute the strings anywhere and strum very lightly across the strings moving your hand down and up in 16ths. You need a loose very relaxed wrist. and it helps to put emphasis on the first beat. Once you can do this you just need to turn the chord on and off by pressing it down at the right time (in this case, for the last down-up of each beat).

 This kind of thing is the basis of funk guitar (Nile Rodgers riffs etc) as well as Ska.

I’ve played a lot of ska and reggae and this is sort of proto ska punk. Interesting, I’ve never really listened to Canary much before. 

CaseOfAce

Oh that's a nasty riff to play !
I've got it down as a very, very fast triplet muted down, up, down followed by the usual reggae up stroke cut  immediately dead by the fretting hand to get that skank rhythm to ring out (I'm also palm muting with picking hand at times).

By itself it makes no sense - but played along with the bass and single riff it sounds right.
I'm not surprised they never did it live - it needs the 2 guitar parts working together or it doesn't work. I'm guessing there's multiple dubbed guitars on the original recording.

He's also not staying on that E triad around the 5th fret for second part of playing E chord - there's a C# at 9th fret (barring across top 3 strings at 9th fret hence why I'm hearing an E major sixth chord) - followed by C barre chord top 3 or 4 strings moving down to the Am at 5 fret top 3 or 4 strings.

Chord sequence thus:
E -> E major 6  repeated a few times followed by C -> Am

EricTheWeary

CaseOfAce said:

Oh that's a nasty riff to play !
I've got it down as a very, very fast triplet muted down, up, down followed by the usual reggae up stroke cut  immediately dead by the fretting hand to get that skank rhythm to ring out (I'm also palm muting with picking hand at times).

By itself it makes no sense - but played along with the bass and single riff it sounds right.
I'm not surprised they never did it live - it needs the 2 guitar parts working together or it doesn't work. I'm guessing there's multiple dubbed guitars on the original recording.

He's also not staying on that E triad around the 5th fret for second part of playing E chord - there's a C# at 9th fret (barring across top 3 strings at 9th fret hence why I'm hearing an E major sixth chord) - followed by C barre chord top 3 or 4 strings moving down to the Am at 5 fret top 3 or 4 strings.

Chord sequence thus:
E -> E major 6  repeated a few times followed by C -> Am

I didn’t realise he was altering the chord until I slowed it down on YouTube and suddenly you can hear that as well. Good luck to @DaveJames it’s a lot harder than I thought  

DaveJames

Thanks, appreciate  your effort.