Can't be bothered with the chase any more.

Jonathanthomas83

To address the amp in the room, speaker break in thing...I'm using a Suhr Load box. And before that becomes a different discussion, I know this setup like the back of my hand and it sounds great. As stated in the OP, this setup sounds great for certain things. As we've all discussed, I'm expecting a bit much from it based on my wide/varied tastes and incessant need to write music in slightly different genre's. cc @p90fool @GoFish ;

GoFish said:

Just to clarify: You have written / arranged songs and are now ready to record them. You have specific sounds in mind  but don't know how to achieve them?

What stopped you recording the songs using the Kemper and the Laney clean preset?

This is THE question! I guess I felt that to do the recordings justice, recording them with a real amp would be nice. I was right in a way, because it is different in a good way. In other ways, it's clearly not.

idiotwindow said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

idiotwindow said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

As dramatic as it sounds, I've trodden this road so many times, I'm ready to knock it all on the head. 

Without wishing to be blunt, that sounds a bit petulant. I guess you need to ask yourself what you are trying to achieve and whether you can enjoy simply playing the guitar without feeling the need to "chase" something? Perhaps play acoustic for a while and leave all the amp/pedal/tone stuff aside.

And to that end, I don't feel I can fully enjoy guitar again until many of these songs are recorded and out of my head to make room for more things.

Ok, understood. What is it about the current set-up that isn't working with the Les Paul? Are there any other, cheaper, digital modelling solutions that could substitute for the Kemper in your previous set-up? Perhaps buy used and then sell on when you've recorded your songs?

I think this is a great way to go, buy, record, sell until I've recorded everything. It might be the way I decide to play it, mate, to be fair. It's a very good idea.

26.2 said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

26.2 said:

But what are you chasing? Do you enjoy gear or do you enjoy playing guitar? They’re not mutually exclusive but your balance might be off. Set yourself a non-gear related guitar goal perhaps?

As I allude to above, if the tone in my head doesn't match the tone I'm getting, then I'm not happy playing. As flippant and spoiled as that sounds. Hopefully it's a phase, but I've been like it for years now.

But there is no tone in your head, only the tones you hear and more importantly the tones you create. Just work with what you have. 

It does sound like you maybe need a break to recharge your (9 volt) batteries. Don’t overthink it. 

(As an aside I’m bloody sick of the word ‘tone’ and all it implies).

It's that mental block again, I'm afraid. Not being able to get over that fact that it doesn't sound quite right. This is all based on the fact tat I've written these songs with gear I owned previously and then, abruptly needed to sell to sort some financial issues, and haven't been able to recreate since. Which is basically the crux of the problem. So they aren't sounds in my head, really, they're sounds (cough "tones"), I have on snippets of unfinished recordings I've made over the years with various amps and gear.

You're right, I'm going crazy over it and need a recharge/break.

Jonathanthomas83

victorludorum said:

These tones that you hear, are they the sounds coming from isolated guitar tracks on record or are they the sounds coming from a completely mixed and mastered song?

See bottom of above post, mate :-)

CaseOfAce

I do think a lot of these "seeking my tone / relentless GAS" type threads could be circumnavigated by just meeting up with another human being and actually playing / jamming music - there must be some guitar players in your neighbourhood?
Gear obsession very rapidly recedes into the distance when you are having a blast focusing on making music with others.

Even if you live on a remote Scottish isle the chances are there's at least one folky, beardy type living on a rocky outcrop with an acoustic somewhere out there..?! 

Other than that watch Get Back on Disney+ or Blue Ray and watch 4 blokes mess around with minimal gear having fun and writing songs I'm still performing live 50 years later.
Paul McCartney didn't even know what the knobs on his Rickenbacker bass did?!?

tomajoha

Jonathanthomas83 said:

idiotwindow said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

As dramatic as it sounds, I've trodden this road so many times, I'm ready to knock it all on the head. 

Without wishing to be blunt, that sounds a bit petulant. I guess you need to ask yourself what you are trying to achieve and whether you can enjoy simply playing the guitar without feeling the need to "chase" something? Perhaps play acoustic for a while and leave all the amp/pedal/tone stuff aside.

Sorry, yes, I can understand why you'd say that. I'm not trying to be a spoiled brat about it, but that's probably how it's coming out.

I feel I've focussed on my playing and writing for years and have a bunch of songs I want to record but am very picky about tones and how I want things to sound, I don't have the money to back that up. It's like a roadblock to recording a written song when I don't feel that the sound is right. I have a definitive sound in my head and if it's not right, then I won't record it. That will sound stupid to some, but that's me, I'm afraid.

And to that end, I don't feel I can fully enjoy guitar again until many of these songs are recorded and out of my head to make room for more things.

Perfect is the enemy of good

...we all need reminded of that somedays

26.2

CaseOfAce said:

I do think a lot of these "seeking my tone / relentless GAS" type threads could be circumnavigated by just meeting up with another human being and actually playing / jamming music - there must be some guitar players in your neighbourhood?
Gear obsession very rapidly recedes into the distance when you are having a blast focusing on making music with others.

Even if you live on a remote Scottish isle the chances are there's at least one folky, beardy type living on a rocky outcrop with an acoustic somewhere out there..?! 

Other than that watch Get Back on Disney+ or Blue Ray and watch 4 blokes mess around with minimal gear having fun and writing songs I'm still performing live 50 years later.
Paul McCartney didn't even know what the knobs on his Rickenbacker bass did?!?

If I could award a thousand wisdoms I would. 

Greatape

Jonathanthomas83 said:

26.2 said:

But what are you chasing? Do you enjoy gear or do you enjoy playing guitar? They’re not mutually exclusive but your balance might be off. Set yourself a non-gear related guitar goal perhaps?

As I allude to above, if the tone in my head doesn't match the tone I'm getting, then I'm not happy playing. As flippant and spoiled as that sounds. Hopefully it's a phase, but I've been like it for years now.

I can't speak for you, obvs, but for me the biggest determinants for getting the fundamental tone in my head out into the world were playing technique - attack, pick angle, left hand squeeze, etc, plectrum type and tip condition (I mess mine up slightly to catch the string a little, which helps with fat, clear sound), adjusting guitar controls and setting amp to where it works best. Then when you have that,  pedals can be used to add. 

LastMantra

octatonic said:

I stopped worrying about gear a long time ago...

That's 'cause you've got it all 

victorludorum

Songs are the wood, and the tones are the paint. Get them out there and 're-paint' them later if you feel you need to.

victorludorum

Greatape said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

26.2 said:

But what are you chasing? Do you enjoy gear or do you enjoy playing guitar? They’re not mutually exclusive but your balance might be off. Set yourself a non-gear related guitar goal perhaps?

As I allude to above, if the tone in my head doesn't match the tone I'm getting, then I'm not happy playing. As flippant and spoiled as that sounds. Hopefully it's a phase, but I've been like it for years now.

I can't speak for you, obvs, but for me the biggest determinants for getting the fundamental tone in my head out into the world were playing technique - attack, pick angle, left hand squeeze, etc, plectrum type and tip condition (I mess mine up slightly to catch the string a little, which helps with fat, clear sound), adjusting guitar controls and setting amp to where it works best. Then when you have that,  pedals can be used to add. 

Ahhhh, but these pedals you talk about; which one is the best? Should I use or avoid true bypass? Are my digital pedals all crap and should I replace them with expensive, re-worked analogue ones? Does hand wired have the mojo that - so I'm told - PCB doesn't? etc etc

octatonic

LastMantra said:

octatonic said:

I stopped worrying about gear a long time ago...

That's 'cause you've got it all 

Well, there is that.

enjo

Jonathanthomas83 said:

 So they aren't sounds in my head, really, they're sounds (cough "tones"), I have on snippets of unfinished recordings I've made over the years with various amps and gear.

You're right, I'm going crazy over it and need a recharge/break.

Are you comparing recorded sounds of both or recorded sounds vs in the room sounds?

I get where you're coming from - sometimes the fun is in the chase but the chase can get tiring.
I'm lucky to have found the sounds in my head (but if you had told me how much it would cost when I starter looking for it I might have taken up the harmonica instead (and my gear isn't THAT expensive compared to some!)).

ewal

I'm the same except it's not the gear - I've just had enough of writing and playing tunes that no-one ever hears. My enthusiasm has fallen off a cliff.

Also suspect it's partly the time of year... Hibernation instinct, can't be arsed, SAD - whatever you want to call it.

darthed1981

ewal said:

I've just had enough of writing and playing tunes that no-one ever hears.

You are in good company - 60,000 songs per DAY are uploaded to Spotify.

TimmyO

It sounds like you just got used to how your pedals work with the Kemper to get the right sounds for you. 

There’s nothing wrong with going back to the Kemper (unless it was causing you a problem, like options paralysis or something?) .

If it works for you it works - who cares if it’s ‘overkill’ or whatever. Whatever serves you. 

(imo) 

JCA2550

It may seem like a daft question, but what pedals are you using with the Lionheart LH20H?) and is the signal chain identical, are you using the fx loop etc? From what I remember it has a parallel FX loop which sounds and behaves very different to a serial one?

Jonathanthomas83

JCA2550 said:

It may seem like a daft question, but what pedals are you using with the Lionheart LH20H?) and is the signal chain identical, are you using the fx loop etc? From what I remember it has a parallel FX loop which sounds and behaves very different to a serial one?

Yes, exactly the same and not using the FX loop whatsoever, mate. It's the drives that have amazed me, can't even get close.

TimmyO said:

It sounds like you just got used to how your pedals work with the Kemper to get the right sounds for you. 

There’s nothing wrong with going back to the Kemper (unless it was causing you a problem, like options paralysis or something?) .

If it works for you it works - who cares if it’s ‘overkill’ or whatever. Whatever serves you. 

(imo) 

I agree with this, seems that it did work for me. I'm loathe to go back to it now, especially since I sold it!

victorludorum

Do you still use Amplitube, or did you ditch it?

ICBM

Start by turning stuff down, other than the final master volume on the amp. In particular, less pedal gain, and don’t use boosts to push the amp (if you do). Let everything ‘breathe’ more and the Les Paul should sound less overpowering.

It may also need lower-output pickups, or better pots, especially if they’re stock Gibson ones.

And at the end of the day you may just not suit a Les Paul - not everyone does - you *don’t* need to ‘cover all the bases’, and a Telecaster may be the Les Paul for you…

It’s better to carefully refine what you already have than rip it up and start from somewhere else, as long as you know you’re in the right ballpark to start with. It’s possible you aren’t, but not that likely if you know you like the Laney sound.

Jonathanthomas83

victorludorum said:

Do you still use Amplitube, or did you ditch it?

Funny enough, I've plugged back in to Amplitube, for obvious reasons, over the last 24 hours and am enjoying it much more than any of my physical gear right now. Seem to have found the nuances I like in the Laney from a Fender blackface model. Nuances being tenuous to an extent, of course. But the approximation is there. I'm trying desperately to ignore my default OCD-like position and go with the advice on this very thread that 'perfect is the enemy of good'.

ICBM said:

Start by turning stuff down, other than the final master volume on the amp. In particular, less pedal gain, and don’t use boosts to push the amp (if you do). Let everything ‘breathe’ more and the Les Paul should sound less overpowering.

It may also need lower-output pickups, or better pots, especially if they’re stock Gibson ones.

And at the end of the day you may just not suit a Les Paul - not everyone does - you *don’t* need to ‘cover all the bases’, and a Telecaster may be the Les Paul for you…

It’s better to carefully refine what you already have than rip it up and start from somewhere else, as long as you know you’re in the right ballpark to start with. It’s possible you aren’t, but not that likely if you know you like the Laney sound.

Thank you, mate, this is great advice, I will plug in and try later. The last point, particularly, is spot on!

Greatape

victorludorum said:

Greatape said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

26.2 said:

But what are you chasing? Do you enjoy gear or do you enjoy playing guitar? They’re not mutually exclusive but your balance might be off. Set yourself a non-gear related guitar goal perhaps?

As I allude to above, if the tone in my head doesn't match the tone I'm getting, then I'm not happy playing. As flippant and spoiled as that sounds. Hopefully it's a phase, but I've been like it for years now.

I can't speak for you, obvs, but for me the biggest determinants for getting the fundamental tone in my head out into the world were playing technique - attack, pick angle, left hand squeeze, etc, plectrum type and tip condition (I mess mine up slightly to catch the string a little, which helps with fat, clear sound), adjusting guitar controls and setting amp to where it works best. Then when you have that,  pedals can be used to add. 

Ahhhh, but these pedals you talk about; which one is the best? Should I use or avoid true bypass? Are my digital pedals all crap and should I replace them with expensive, re-worked analogue ones? Does hand wired have the mojo that - so I'm told - PCB doesn't? etc etc

Amazon-badged ones. Obvs.