CAGED - the good, the bad and the ugly?

CaseOfAce

I use the C shape around the 5th fret (x76454) a fair bit these days for playing an E chord. I know where the major 3rds are in it and it puts the A and B chords /  CAGED shapes right under my fingers for playing the changes to these with associated scales. 
I saw Knopfler using these ideas in a So Far Away live vid. 

Gilly

viz said:

Cheers. So, I often use the C shaped chord as a 1st inversion chord off the low E string (eg 476454 for an E chord), and I use a sort-of G shaped chord (sans E strings) as a first inversion off the A string (eg x4222x for an A chord). And I use the A-shaped chord as a 2nd inversion off the E string (eg 77999x for an E chord). But I can’t reconcile that with caged at all. 

Taking A major as an example. You can play an A major chord using the 5 CAGED shapes.

Starting with the second chord you mention, this fingering is an A chord in the G shape. Theoretically you can add the A notes on the 1st and 6th strings but it’s not necessary. 

Next would be the A chord in the E shape, which is your standard A bar chord at the 5th fret). 

Next would be the A chord in the D shape. This is usually played from the 4th string at the 7th fret.

You then move up to the A chord in the C shape, then the A chord in the A shape until you’re back to the G shape an octave above. 

You can do the same for minor chords and 7th chords (again some fingerings will be practical, others more theoretical). 

Once you’ve learned the shapes you can use it to work out chord progressions all over the neck like Little Wing etc. Basically if you play chord progressions using the standard E and A bar shapes, you’re using CAGED, whether you think of it in that way or not.

viz

Ok thanks, yep, I think it doesn’t add anything for me, I prefer just thinking in inversions - root, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Cheers

Gilly

viz said:

Ok thanks, yep, I think it doesn’t add anything for me, I prefer just thinking in inversions - root, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Cheers

Absolutely. If you already have a more sophisticated way of mapping out the fretboard it probably won’t be of much use.

Gilly

I think the key point is use whatever works for you or is appropriate for the style you want to play. Loads of soul, country, pop and blues players use CAGED so if that’s what you want to play then it’s probably a good idea to learn it.

For metal (or even classical) 3nps forms are probably more useful because that’s what many of those players are using when they burn up and down the fretboard. 

stratman3142

Gilly said:

I think the key point is use whatever works for you or is appropriate for the style you want to play. Loads of soul, country, pop and blues players use CAGED so if that’s what you want to play then it’s probably a good idea to learn it.

For metal (or even classical) 3nps forms are probably more useful because that’s what many of those players are using when they burn up and down the fretboard. 

I agree about using whatever works.

I don't see CAGED, 3nps, thinking in intervals (or whatever floats your boat) as being mutually exclusive. I play a lot of 3nps but still use CAGED as a fretboard roadmap/framework in helping visualise intervals on the fretboard. I just see 3nps as spanning across more than one CAGED zone on the fretboard.
 

Gilly

stratman3142 said:

I agree about using whatever works.

I don't see CAGED, 3nps, thinking in intervals (or whatever floats your boat) as being mutual exclusive. I play a lot of 3nps but still use CAGED as a fretboard roadmap/framework in helping visualise intervals on the fretboard. I just see 3nps as spanning across more than one CAGED zone on the fretboard.
 

Good point, I agree. The appropriately-named Mr Hess certainly shouldn’t be telling people not to use a system that’s worked for years and helped countless people. 

AK99

Gilly said:

AntonHunter said:

No idea who that Tom Hess is (and I'm not giving him the pleasure of googling him), but it looks remarkably like he hasn't learned the CAGED system to me. If anyone knows him, send him a Joe Pass book yeah?

Don’t bother. Think stereotypical loudmouth American right wing nut job and you’re in the ballpark. Levi Clay did some videos on him exposing his shady practices and how he runs his teaching business like a pyramid scheme and a cult (yes really.)

Had to read that a second time..

Rocker

Why make something relatively simple complicated by calling it CAGED? We all know that chords and notes can be played almost anywhere on the guitar neck, so simply learn the notes and chord shapes on the area that sounds best to you. 

A lot of nonsense is written about note playing speed. Excessive speed can be used to disguise the fact that there is little music being played yet will impress those that know no better. 

Songs by Johnny Cash, Pink Floyd, The Beatles etc still sound fresh and interesting as they tell a story. Not because they use modes or whatever music academics call a subset of the Chromatic scale. If it sounds good, play it. Who gives a fuck what mode or whatever it is. 

Keefy

Rocker said:

..,

Songs by Johnny Cash, Pink Floyd, The Beatles etc still sound fresh and interesting as they tell a story. Not because they use modes or whatever music academics call a subset of the Chromatic scale. If it sounds good, play it. Who gives a fuck what mode or whatever it is. 

I do. Probably several other people too.

GuyBoden

CAGED is exactly what it says on the tin, A CAGE for your playing, once in the CAGE, escaping from the CAGE is difficult.

EricTheWeary

Rocker said:

Why make something relatively simple complicated by calling it CAGED? We all know that chords and notes can be played almost anywhere on the guitar neck, so simply learn the notes and chord shapes on the area that sounds best to you. 

A lot of nonsense is written about note playing speed. Excessive speed can be used to disguise the fact that there is little music being played yet will impress those that know no better. 

Songs by Johnny Cash, Pink Floyd, The Beatles etc still sound fresh and interesting as they tell a story. Not because they use modes or whatever music academics call a subset of the Chromatic scale. If it sounds good, play it. Who gives a fuck what mode or whatever it is. 

Oddly enough I was watching a bit of an interview with Rick Wright (Pink Floyd)the other day who was discussing some of his approaches around borrowing extended chord voicings from jazz; I'm certain he gave a fuck about those kind of things. And pretty much the interesting thing about The Beatles was their use of complex harmonic and rhythmic approaches within pop music otherwise they'd have long been forgotten for Herman's Hermits. Modes and scales were exactly the kind of thing that The Beatles, Macca at least, were interested in. Johnny Cash notable for his use of key changes which either needed good theoretical knowledge or a very good ear (if not both). 

kelpbeds

I think one of the big issues with CAGED is that most people don't understand it in it's entirety. People understand bits of it (and then think they know the whole system) and then talk about it's shortcomings, not realising that it is actually a lot more comprehensive than they realise. CAGED encompasses different chordal voicing, a whole range of arpeggios, pentatonic scales, major and minor scales and modes. It's a way of putting different layers on the same concept rather than having different systems to deal with each concept. I decided to tackle all of this by producing a video which explains CAGED here.

sev112

It’s CAGED because they are the 5 root chord (scale) shapes C, A, G, E, D that are used further up the neck.

i find them very useful in classical guitar reading/playing, where you have to go up the neck a lot, and we are playing chords and individual notes /runs at the same time.  If I know I am say Eminor key, then if I am playing at the 7th fret, then I know quite easily what are the 5 main chord shapes in Eminor at that position and means i intuitively know where the right fingering will be for the runs/notes; and also if I then need to move up a position.

hence why I thought the poster in the OP seemed wrong in all aspects, as it seems to presume you need to be playing fast 

Roland

GuyBoden said:

CAGED is exactly what it says on the tin, A CAGE for your playing, once in the CAGE, escaping from the CAGE is difficult.

Surely you are joking Mr Feynman?

digitalkettle

Roland said:

GuyBoden said:

CAGED is exactly what it says on the tin, A CAGE for your playing, once in the CAGE, escaping from the CAGE is difficult.

Surely you are joking Mr Feynman?

I mean, there's always a key, right?

stratman3142

digitalkettle said:

Roland said:

GuyBoden said:

CAGED is exactly what it says on the tin, A CAGE for your playing, once in the CAGE, escaping from the CAGE is difficult.

Surely you are joking Mr Feynman?

I mean, there's always a key, right?

Clearly, to some, CAGED is heaven and, to others, it's hell.

hollywoodrox

kelpbeds said:

I think one of the big issues with CAGED is that most people don't understand it in it's entirety. People understand bits of it (and then think they know the whole system) and then talk about it's shortcomings, not realising that it is actually a lot more comprehensive than they realise. CAGED encompasses different chordal voicing, a whole range of arpeggios, pentatonic scales, major and minor scales and modes. It's a way of putting different layers on the same concept rather than having different systems to deal with each concept. I decided to tackle all of this by producing a video which explains CAGED here.

Mate this is a class video ,I’m going to watch it again 

kelpbeds

hollywoodrox said:

kelpbeds said:

I think one of the big issues with CAGED is that most people don't understand it in it's entirety. People understand bits of it (and then think they know the whole system) and then talk about it's shortcomings, not realising that it is actually a lot more comprehensive than they realise. CAGED encompasses different chordal voicing, a whole range of arpeggios, pentatonic scales, major and minor scales and modes. It's a way of putting different layers on the same concept rather than having different systems to deal with each concept. I decided to tackle all of this by producing a video which explains CAGED here.

Mate this is a class video ,I’m going to watch it again 

Thank you so much, means an awful lot to me. 

dazzer22

people definitely over think things when it comes to learning music , number one rule only learn things your going to use in your music or playing, seriously when your improvising do you really have time to look at the fret board and read where to go by notes and shapes, mapping the fret board with shapes and boxes is one way and people are very successful ,  I just feel a  more natural way is to use your mind and your ears, I like to use my mind and ears because i fail to see how you can get a natural  solo from a box or shape.